Help: Energy Sources?

Discussion of the background, history & universe
Forum rules
This is a game - This is fun - Your posts should reflect this

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Smk » Wed May 23, 2012 2:55 am

Either dragonite or some kind of ether drive.

My wheeled and tracked vehicles run on biodiesel thou. Cheap, easy to obtain and doesn't require high tech base.
Please endure my english, I use MFZ as an excuse to relearn the language.
User avatar
Smk
Newcomer
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Poland/Germany

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Wed May 23, 2012 10:17 am

Something to keep in mind for wheeled vehicles: on the low-infrastructure colonies where most of our action takes place, it's easier to build labor frames than it is to build roads.

I really want to build a hexapodal peach hauler.
User avatar
Joshua A.C. Newman
MFZ:RA Game Designer
 
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby warhammer651 » Wed May 23, 2012 1:33 pm

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Something to keep in mind for wheeled vehicles: on the low-infrastructure colonies where most of our action takes place, it's easier to build labor frames than it is to build roads.

Given how widely used pickup trucks are in areas with low infrastructure on Earth, I somehow think colonies will still have a place for tracks and wheels even if roads are scarce. Which also means they'll probably have technicals mounting anti-frame weaponry. Which is an awesome mental image.

On a semi-related note: how common is anti-gravity/hover technology?
User avatar
warhammer651
Young Gun
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:20 pm
Location: behind you

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby A YATES INDUSTRIALS » Wed May 23, 2012 8:15 pm

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Kinetic batteries, btw, have exactly this explosive release problem. Not that I have a problem with frames that use kinetic batteries or that explode. They're just not perpetual motion machines as long as they take place within the Solar Calendar.

i might have to create a new energy source if mine is not feasable,also kill the previous engineer...
o)-<|:
A YATES INDUSTRIALS
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 904
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:46 am
Location: FLAGSTAFF ARIZONA

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby randolph » Thu May 24, 2012 1:42 am

A YATES INDUSTRIALS wrote:
Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Kinetic batteries, btw, have exactly this explosive release problem. Not that I have a problem with frames that use kinetic batteries or that explode. They're just not perpetual motion machines as long as they take place within the Solar Calendar.

i might have to create a new energy source if mine is not feasable,also kill the previous engineer...

"Violating the Laws of Physics is punishable by DEATH."
WangTech, Inc.
Inexorable. Progress.
Company Overview
randolph
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:10 pm

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Fri May 25, 2012 2:12 am

warhammer651 wrote:
Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Something to keep in mind for wheeled vehicles: on the low-infrastructure colonies where most of our action takes place, it's easier to build labor frames than it is to build roads.

Given how widely used pickup trucks are in areas with low infrastructure on Earth, I somehow think colonies will still have a place for tracks and wheels even if roads are scarce. Which also means they'll probably have technicals mounting anti-frame weaponry. Which is an awesome mental image.

On a semi-related note: how common is anti-gravity/hover technology?


The "technicals" of the Solar Century are labor frames with a machine gun in its hand!

Electric motors and internal combustion engines are less reliable than labor frames in all but the most infrastructure-friendly environments, though they of course exist and the desperate use every means at their disposal. You could of course use muscle cylinders to power wheels, but the resulting vehicle wouldn't have muscle memory, wouldn't give haptic feedback to the driver, and couldn't step sideways, pull itself upright, or climb over things.

(This is a necessary axiom of the setting; otherwise, no robots!)

Antigravity is like helicopters: it constantly uses energy and only works to counteract existing gravity; thrust is generated by some other means. It's not inexpensive or particularly reliable, but it gives capabilities that otherwise you wouldn't have.
User avatar
Joshua A.C. Newman
MFZ:RA Game Designer
 
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Talusmouse » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:20 am

My suits use batteries. Not the most efficient method but it gets the job done especially since combat doesn't last that long.The more advanced forces have a more advanced battery that lasts longer. 12 hour batteries are the max my suits use, and if they need more time then that there is something wrong or toilets were installed in the suits without my knowledge ;)
Talusmouse
Young Gun
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:39 am
Location: Clifton Park, NY

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Xero010 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:08 pm

morganm wrote:I'm trying to finish up some background for a planet and the premise is that it's rich with biota and energy but the planet is lacking in basic raw materials used in making metal alloys and exotic composites. This means they have plenty of goods to export and are still trading well but replacement parts, construction materials, and new machinery must be shipped in.

Got any cool sci-fi energy sources ? Also what exotic raw materials would be found on other planets that would be refined and used to produce this energy?

The only thing I could think of was Energon =)

Energon? MAKE DARK ENERGON!!!! Its carries more energy than actual energon. Side effects may include the disturbing urge to see the blood of your enemies splattered all over the battle ground. :mrgreen:. Or you could use the GN drive from gundam 00. Can you say "TRANS AM!!!!!" :lol:
Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today. - Mark Twain
Strike Fast. Strike Hard. Strike without Mercy.
User avatar
Xero010
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 807
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:06 pm
Location: Alexandria, VA

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Zero Revenge » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:36 am

Xero010 wrote: Can you say "TRANS AM!!!!!" :lol:

Trans Graham.
Self-appointed lore buff.
http://mfzarcadia.wordpress.com/ - Keep up to date on the War for Arcadia
User avatar
Zero Revenge
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:44 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby CrimsonKMR » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:06 pm

Zero Revenge wrote:
Xero010 wrote: Can you say "TRANS AM!!!!!" :lol:

Trans Graham.


*snickers*
User avatar
CrimsonKMR
Talkative
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:01 am

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:09 pm

My frames run on Trans Orange Chainsaw Drives.
User avatar
Joshua A.C. Newman
MFZ:RA Game Designer
 
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Foxfire » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:08 pm

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Kinetic batteries, btw, have exactly this explosive release problem. Not that I have a problem with frames that use kinetic batteries or that explode. They're just not perpetual motion machines as long as they take place within the Solar Calendar.


The other problem with most kinetic batteries is momentum. They tried making a car that ran off a horizontally mounted flywheel. It worked great until the car went up a hill. The rotational momentum tore the flywheel loose from its mountings.
Brute force and ignorance can solve any problem. The application of brute force and ignorance may create other new problems, but those problem can also be solved with brute force and ignorance. -An old roomate
Foxfire
Chatty
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:46 am
Location: DFW

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:38 pm

If you put the wheels far enough forward, you could go up a hill doing a front wheelie!
User avatar
Joshua A.C. Newman
MFZ:RA Game Designer
 
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby LowestFormOfWit » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:32 pm

The Dissident frames are powered by Void Cells. Basically conduits for the essence (either blood or thought) of a sinister, dark entity of space's endless abyss, worshiped as a god by these faithful (or mindslaved? I haven't really banged out a solid Dissident lore yet!) shadowy Ijad traitors.

Hard to choose.
User avatar
LowestFormOfWit
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 945
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 1:58 am
Location: Buried in bricks, behind a closed door.

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:45 pm

While I endorse that creativity, you'll note the total absence of psychic powers, mysterious demons, or other fantastic lore within the Solar Calendar. Nature itself, by the rules of the setting, has no intentions or moral content; all of that is in the hands of people. Even the Ijad god, Ahih/Ahu (depending on the way you're talking about it) is, in fact, a gas giant that looks like an eye. It's not a person, it's not actually a god; it's a force of nature that inspired religious metaphor and poetry. The actual moral content exists in the words and actions of real people of Shebehu/Celiel.
User avatar
Joshua A.C. Newman
MFZ:RA Game Designer
 
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Tsuchigumo » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:29 pm

Hybrid systems work well. Take a dated nuclear system that requires less coolant and put it together with twin fuel cells used to power said coolant (with a little extra energy) and you have a stable drive that can last a good while.

Secondly, use solar panel batteries to fuel a very efficient semi-perpetual-motion-machine-kinetic-drive, add biofuel cells as a backup.
Tsuchigumo
Chatty
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:53 am

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Doldrum » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:29 pm

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:While I endorse that creativity, you'll note the total absence of psychic powers, mysterious demons, or other fantastic lore within the Solar Calendar. Nature itself, by the rules of the setting, has no intentions or moral content; all of that is in the hands of people. Even the Ijad god, Ahih/Ahu (depending on the way you're talking about it) is, in fact, a gas giant that looks like an eye. It's not a person, it's not actually a god; it's a force of nature that inspired religious metaphor and poetry. The actual moral content exists in the words and actions of real people of Shebehu/Celiel.


You have just shattered the beliefs of an entire civilization!

Any way...going back to anti-gravity. Could you not create a similar interaction by using maglevs? Could you simulate gravity by giving everyone on the space station gravity boots? Or is it possible to create a generator that is powered by rotating magnets?
Who ever controls the Peach controls the Universe.
User avatar
Doldrum
Talkative
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:58 pm
Location: Clifton Park, New York

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby LowestFormOfWit » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:37 am

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:While I endorse that creativity, you'll note the total absence of psychic powers, mysterious demons, or other fantastic lore within the Solar Calendar. Nature itself, by the rules of the setting, has no intentions or moral content; all of that is in the hands of people. Even the Ijad god, Ahih/Ahu (depending on the way you're talking about it) is, in fact, a gas giant that looks like an eye. It's not a person, it's not actually a god; it's a force of nature that inspired religious metaphor and poetry. The actual moral content exists in the words and actions of real people of Shebehu/Celiel.


Well, I don't mean to imply it is an actual god they are worshiping. I'm taking artistic license with the 'known sciences of Nature' in the Solar Calendar setting compared to our real-world known (or theoretical) sciences. In other words, Dissident Void Cells (or whatever I end up calling them) are powered by 'energy unknown/unexplained' by current Solar Calendar science. Trying to draw a line between unexplained new phenomena and straight up fantasy infusions. But thank you for confirming that!
User avatar
LowestFormOfWit
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 945
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 1:58 am
Location: Buried in bricks, behind a closed door.

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:39 am

Ok, that's cool, then.

Lemme explain why this is important to me. There are a couple of parts to it.

1: The inviolability of the moral neutrality of the universe. A morally intentional universe removes agency from the hands of people and makes them the puppets of cosmic forces. It might be a cool (but completely different) game to play those cosmic forces, but if we're playing people, those cosmic forces are nothing more than an excuse to act with impunity. There is no moral impunity in the Solar Calendar.

2: The universe follows natural principles. If it's not true that EMC^2, the entire rest of the setting falls apart. No transit gates, no GPS, no transistors. We have marked off areas where we don't understand the principles completely, like "dark matter" (matter that doesn't reflect or emit enough radiation for us to perceive) and "dark energy", which I don't understand. But we can point to these areas of mystery because we can calculate the shape of the problem,knowing what we know.

3: Economy is a force of nature in society-scale relations. The market value of something is a ratio of its value to the person who controls it vs. the value to a person who needs it, plus the amount it costs to move, process, or whatever. So if there's some form of energy that no one's ever theoretically described before, it matters because it helps someone feed their children in some way. That way might be powering their labor frames to harvest food, it might be that they use it to power their mobile frames to defend their labor frames to harvest their food to feed their children. It might be that they use it to power the transit gate to send their mobile frames to capture a harvest that they can use their labor frames to plant so they can feed their children. But as soon as someone says, "Here's a fusion battery that, in the end, costs you 10% less", that means 10% less need to go capture other people's harvests, which might mean 15% more energy to power the labor frames, which might mean 20% more calories to feed their children.

Conversely, if this type of energy is actually better, than harnessing it is a matter of technique; otherwise, they couldn't turn it into electricity to power their frames. I bet someone would pay the equivalent of many, many children's meals to learn that technique — maybe even installing those fusion generators at no cost to the colonists — thereby also solving the problem.

If this is a form of energy you're talking about, it's a force of nature no one's ever heard of before. Your guys might be holding onto it because of a religious belief, but that means that they're also using it with a mistaken belief about its nature. That kind of thing has historically gone very poorly. See Lysenko and German vs. Jewish Physics. This is an ongoing matter in the US with "Creation Sciences" and climate change denial. It's the bug in the human nervous system that the scientific process seeks to address.

Now, I want to make it clear that it's OK if your Dissidents are riding high on the limited information they have, funded by some externality (maybe not even realizing that they're not getting the benefits they expect — there are not a few obfuscating factors in a war). But if so, you're making your dreaded inquisitors out to be kinda suckers. Which, you know, the real world Inquisition was a lot of socioeconomic oppression masked in magical thinking too, so OK. But they sure as hutch didn't have an actual god on their side.
User avatar
Joshua A.C. Newman
MFZ:RA Game Designer
 
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: Help: Energy Sources?

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:53 am

Doldrum wrote:
Any way...going back to anti-gravity. Could you not create a similar interaction by using maglevs? Could you simulate gravity by giving everyone on the space station gravity boots? Or is it possible to create a generator that is powered by rotating magnets?


That's ok if you only want your feet affected by "gravity". I foresee broken ankles. But the Von Braun giant ring/box on a rope is the best way to go. The only problems are coriolis (where your head and feet are going the same speed by have different angular momentum, which means everything would slowly fall forward), which is avoided with a large enough ring and the gyroscopic force making turning on-axis a weird, wobbly event.

My spacecraft will have rings and centrifuges, but they'll be stopped or retracted for combat to allow maneuver.

On the other hand, while antigravity causes weird logical problems with the setting, I'm less concerned about the effects on bone density of zero G. You'll note we're not overly concerned with space radiation, either. I'm totally ok with everyone floating around unless they're strapped in. Most space travel is a relatively short affair anyway — maybe a few days to a transit gate, then a few days to the destination. It's only a big issue where you have to do interplanetary travel or other frontier kinds of behaviors that it really matters.
User avatar
Joshua A.C. Newman
MFZ:RA Game Designer
 
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Mobile Frame Background

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 1 guest