Interplanetary Travel.

Discussion of the background, history & universe
Forum rules
This is a game - This is fun - Your posts should reflect this

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:28 pm

Yeah, transit gates make a wormhole across space, which is an infinite-but-brief perturbance in the fabric of spacetime*. By putting it in freefall, it minimizes the effects on the nearby mass. Conversely, when you put it within a gravity well, it affects the gravity well and vice versa — Probably something you don't want.

I'd guess that, at a minimum, it would affect tides and cause earthquakes, not to mention throwing your precious cargo all over the place. Incoming ships don't come out in the exact formation in which they went in. Depending on unpredictable circumstances, they come out with attitudes and locations slightly different from those in which they went in. In space, there are rarely accidents because the transit gate is big enough to compensate for any fleet of normal density — say, a dozen ships or so. They more tightly they're packed, the more likely they'll crunch into each other. If you were to do this on a planet, some of the stuff would wind up underground and some would wind up way up in the air. I'm pretty sure that dropping an entire spacecraft a meter would cause some serious damage.

Oh, and unless the incoming space was completely evacuated of air (a volume that can hold a dozen ships in loose formation), all of the air will crash out of that space into the vacuum on the other side. Even if you had the gate at the other side on a planet with the atmosphere, the entire volume would suddenly equalize pressure.

So, the answer is, it presents huge, perhaps insurmountable engineering challenges.

*Everyone in the transit gate city can feel when someone comes or goes. It's like living near an airport, only with your sense of balance instead of your hearing.
User avatar
Joshua A.C. Newman
MFZ:RA Game Designer
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby Foxfire » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:22 pm

Am I correct in assuming that the teleportation is two-way?

IE If a groups of ships transits to a location, and there is an asteriod at the destination location, does the asteroid get pulled threw in the other direction?
Brute force and ignorance can solve any problem. The application of brute force and ignorance may create other new problems, but those problem can also be solved with brute force and ignorance. -An old roomate
Foxfire
Chatty
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:46 am
Location: DFW

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby Draxinusom » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:57 pm

Foxfire wrote:Am I correct in assuming that the teleportation is two-way?

IE If a groups of ships transits to a location, and there is an asteriod at the destination location, does the asteroid get pulled threw in the other direction?

I'd be inclined to imagine it more like an imprecise door. So if the wormhole opens and an asteroid happens to be traveling into the destination "door" space at that time it would come out on the other side. I would not assume that the gate would pull in objects like a magnet, but I've been wrong before. That's assuming the transit is two-way and probably another reason a destination gate is so valuable as it would be a simple matter to communicate through the gate ahead of time to be sure the destination is clear.
Draxinusom
Newcomer
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:53 am

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:55 pm

A transit gate makes a hyperspatial bridge between two fourspace locations. In a vacuum, that's nice and simple: go in here, come out there (with a certain margin of error).

If you complicate things by having matter (such as fluids) or field effects (like gravity or magnetism) in those places, those forces interact for the instant that the wormhole is open. So if you have vacuum on one side and air on the other, the air will rush through.

So, if the volume you're connecting has mass on both ends — say, like, the inside of an asteroid on one side and a peach freighter on the other, I dunno. I guess I'm seeing nuclear fusion on both sides?

I'll give you my answer based on my aesthetic intentions: little mass-bumps in hyperspace are exactly what you don't want in your transit; they're cows on the train tracks. Furthermore, the presence of the mass makes it dicey enough that the sender is going to be unable to tell where the stuff they're sending is going with any safe precision; the greater the mass at the point of entry, the worse the signal; it's like the phone doesn't even ring on the other side. You could shove a ship through anyway, but you don't even know if it's going to wind up where the interfering mass is. It could hit smack on and fuse, it could show up a kilometer away in the transit gate's town square, sucking out the appropriate amount of air, it could show up a million kilometers away.
User avatar
Joshua A.C. Newman
MFZ:RA Game Designer
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby Tsuchigumo » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:56 pm

I'd sort of imagine a Cowboy Bebop like solution, I think they had automated toll gates that when you entered shot you through a small tube of space with lots of lines (of light?) on the edges. I'm pretty sure that they worked like a Pringles can with both sides having a lid, travel took short amounts of time, you didn't need much thrust and it was possible to move about (they had a dogfight inside of one, where the Swordfish got caught on the edge for a moment and that's probably very bad, it started shaking like there was damage being done.

In other words, less like a train and more like a lock- one side opens, stuff goes in and launches it, that side closes and the other one opens to let stuff through. Except really nice and there's no traffic lines waiting for everyone to complete their journey for the next guy. You can meet and see other vehicles inside of hyperspace.
Tsuchigumo
Chatty
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:53 am

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby Foxfire » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:29 pm

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:A transit gate makes a hyperspatial bridge between two fourspace locations. In a vacuum, that's nice and simple: go in here, come out there (with a certain margin of error).

If you complicate things by having matter (such as fluids) or field effects (like gravity or magnetism) in those places, those forces interact for the instant that the wormhole is open. So if you have vacuum on one side and air on the other, the air will rush through.

So, if the volume you're connecting has mass on both ends — say, like, the inside of an asteroid on one side and a peach freighter on the other, I dunno. I guess I'm seeing nuclear fusion on both sides?

I'll give you my answer based on my aesthetic intentions: little mass-bumps in hyperspace are exactly what you don't want in your transit; they're cows on the train tracks. Furthermore, the presence of the mass makes it dicey enough that the sender is going to be unable to tell where the stuff they're sending is going with any safe precision; the greater the mass at the point of entry, the worse the signal; it's like the phone doesn't even ring on the other side. You could shove a ship through anyway, but you don't even know if it's going to wind up where the interfering mass is. It could hit smack on and fuse, it could show up a kilometer away in the transit gate's town square, sucking out the appropriate amount of air, it could show up a million kilometers away.


Ok, I was imagining that the transit creates a tunnel between 2 locations, and things on both sides enter the tunnel from opposite ends, and maybe collide somewhere in the middle, but if I am understanding correctly...

The transit actually makes location A and B the same location for the duration of transit. To an outside observer, a vehicle making a short transit would appear to be in two locations for the duration of transit.

Is that about right?
Brute force and ignorance can solve any problem. The application of brute force and ignorance may create other new problems, but those problem can also be solved with brute force and ignorance. -An old roomate
Foxfire
Chatty
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:46 am
Location: DFW

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:49 pm

Well, it's like I have a sphere of point A at point B and vice-versa. Entering the sphere at one end is the same as exiting the sphere at the other.

... Except that it's very brief and the sphere is kinda wobbly, which means you pop out a little weird.
User avatar
Joshua A.C. Newman
MFZ:RA Game Designer
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby Zero Revenge » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:11 pm

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:... Except that it's very brief and the sphere is kinda wobbly, which means you pop out a little weird.

Hopefully with all one's chromosomes still in order... :P
Self-appointed lore buff.
http://mfzarcadia.wordpress.com/ - Keep up to date on the War for Arcadia
User avatar
Zero Revenge
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:44 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:40 am

There are more immediate issues. It's one thing to worry about cancer. It's another to straight up crunch your thousand - tonne spacecraft, full of hundreds of cosmonauts and marines, fuel, and ammo, into another one.
User avatar
Joshua A.C. Newman
MFZ:RA Game Designer
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby Stalker117 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:29 pm

Hi there!

I'm a new user and I'm adoring the setting thus far. Great work guys!

With that said, I have a question about gate transit that has popped on my head and I haven't managed to find any reference about it.

How long does usually takes to travel through a gate? For example, you enter gate A and instantaneously come out through gate B, or does it takes time to complete the transit?

And if it takes time to travel, is it possible for two ships transiting in formation to communicate with each other, either with radio, laser or other means?

Thank you. :)
User avatar
Stalker117
Newcomer
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:29 am

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby spacemonkey » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:48 pm

Regarding actual transit time the two terms I've seen used are near instantaneous and very brief (see Joshua's post a few up from your own), so I'm guessing a few seconds at most. From the way Joshua as explained it in this thread, gate transit sounds less like driving a ship through a portal/stargate than it is positioning a ship in the "transit zone" and then the sending and receiving locations (and anything inside them) kind of swap spaces when the gate is activated.
User avatar
spacemonkey
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:48 am
Location: Sioux City, IA

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby David Artman » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:11 pm

Kaiser1917 wrote:Are all transit gates in orbit around various stellar bodies? Have some been built in massive stargate-style rings on a planet's surface?


This makes me wonder if there are nexuses of gates, like a well-designed bus or subway system, or is the whole network a 'web' of arbitrary point-to-point connections? [I REALLY need to read my copy of the rules! :? ]
User avatar
David Artman
Talkative
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:17 pm
Location: Durham, NC, USA

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby spacemonkey » Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:47 pm

Sounds like it's a bit of both. According to Soren in this post:
[Gate energy economics is] one of the things that allows us to have 'geography' (astrography?) between systems, since jumping twice with a waystation over the same distance will use less energy than a single jump. This means some marginal planets and moons will be settled (or at minimum, play host to stations and can-cities) primarily as 'rest-stop' colonies on the way to richer, more settled ones, giving the universe a bit more texture.

So while any transit gate can theoretically connect to another (space "weather" and "interference" aside), practical use of the technology encourages establishing economical transit routes between the various gates.
User avatar
spacemonkey
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:48 am
Location: Sioux City, IA

Re: Interplanetary Travel.

Postby Stalker117 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:46 pm

spacemonkey wrote:Regarding actual transit time the two terms I've seen used are near instantaneous and very brief (see Joshua's post a few up from your own), so I'm guessing a few seconds at most. From the way Joshua as explained it in this thread, gate transit sounds less like driving a ship through a portal/stargate than it is positioning a ship in the "transit zone" and then the sending and receiving locations (and anything inside them) kind of swap spaces when the gate is activated.


Thank you so much for your quick reply. Some of this stuff might have gone under my nose while I read through the thread, but this explains everything I asked for. Thank you so much!
User avatar
Stalker117
Newcomer
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:29 am

Previous

Return to Mobile Frame Background

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron