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Mobile Frame Hangar • View topic - GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS
Page 3 of 3

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:32 am
by Ryujin
Speaking of which, I'd like to note that there are situations in which caseless ammunition would be more desirable. Situations that usually involve machinery that do not take kindly to debris being caught between gears or paper-thin turbine blades whirling at thousands of rpm's. Or you can just stick a canvas bag over the ejection port to catch all the casings.

Granted, you're already tossing around lots of high-velocity projectiles at each other, but at least the bullets tend to embed themselves in whatever they struck instead of floating around in zero-G.


I'd like to note that, so far, we've mainly talked about weapons on a Mobile Frame's scale. Given projected linear advances in materials science, there's no reason why colonists wouldn't have access to a tougher caseless cartridge for their small arms. The weapons themselves don't have to be monuments to Teutonic engineering such as the G-11; Smith & Wesson already managed it back in 1968 with an M76 submachinegun modified for electronic ignition (too bad the 9mm ammo they cooked up was pretty sensitive to moisture). There's still the same old issues but it's highly unlikely that an average colonist's daily routine consists of engaging the local wildlife in a firefight.

This would be of some importance to colonies that haven't established the production & support facilities needed to process cartridge cases from raw ores and are at the end of lengthy transit routes. I'm also assuming that the colony would have some sort of basic 'starter kit' that includes a chemical processing plant. Here, the factor is logistics, not technology.

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:17 pm
by Hackjob

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:27 pm
by CmdrRook
Capacitors are basically this and would probably be necessary for the joules per second of output needed to damage an armored target in a short time. Rifts, a post-apoc/sci-fi/fantasy RPG by Palladium posited the idea of an "E6 Round," a capacitor attached to an emitter that functioned as a self-contained, one-shot laser that could be loaded into a cartridge-firing weapon, provided it shared its caliber. It was one of the few (non-magical) ways to get firearms to deal Mega-Damage. In lore, they also somehow cycled the weapon normally, but I'm unsure how they presumed that would work, as they went "Hard sci-fi" with the lasers; no noise, no noticeable beam or particle effect, just the stench and sizzle of cooking flesh and a cauterized hole through your target.

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:18 am
by Red_Robot

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:35 am
by CmdrRook

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:28 pm
by Red_Robot

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:46 pm
by CmdrRook
To quote the source material; for mass-reduction purposes, an ST-10 Osprey's power source is a sole "Supercapacitor."

One of the Osprey's load-outs show-cases a Fusion Edge; a constant beam of energy capable of cutting "Duralin" like butter. It does not melt its own device nor damage the machinery wielding it, or else it would not be a weapon in the lore.

No mention is given as to whether the power-source for a fusion edge is the Frame itself. A "Amplifier" attachment is shown to establish a D8, but its function is ambiguous. There is a distinct possibility that the power-source and emitter is all self-contained within the hilt of the weapon. If you could safely contain the energy necessary to produce a constant cutting beam within that small container, you NEED the ability to transfer it without significant loss to heat.

Miniaturizing the technology so that it only projects a (much longer) cutting beam for a microsecond before discarding it does not necessarily seem outside the realm of reason for the Solar Calender, but that could just be me.

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:18 am
by Red_Robot

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:58 am
by CmdrRook
I can see where the confusion originated on the topic of disposable laser rounds, as I did linger on the Rifts subject a bit longer than was my intention. I wanted to cite the concept and credit the system, but got carried away musing over the discrepancies between their more rational tech and outlandish stuff, and I apologize for that.

I believe the primary way a Frame loses energy is by operating an external power-consuming system, such as thrusters, radar, or lasers. A supercapacitor would be topped off before deployment, and Newton's Third Law effecting Muscle Cylinders would provide long-term renewable power for the Frame's mobility. A sortie could theoretically be as long as neccessary provided the pilot was judicious about expending power in a way that the Frame could regain at least some portion.

I do understand the "lightsaber" effect, but in an effort to avoid the dangerous hand-waving territory that got me in so much trouble earlier, I would like to address it a bit more if that's alright. You are 100% correct that a recursive laser makes much less sense than a plasma cutter, but containing or compressing the amount of fuel to create a mech-scale cutting blade and fire it constantly for even a "short" sortie would require a massive storage tank for pressurized gas and be required for space use, or some sort of compressor to use local gasses on top of the electrical current required to guide the plasma to the cutting target. What if the target is non-conductive? What if it isn't grounded?

The laser argument is not without its flaws either, seeing as something as simple as a fancy mirror makes it very, very sad.

I certainly hope that discussing technical aspects and finding we don't all agree on all the minutiae of a fictional system won't be mistaken for dislike of the people discussing it. I am as engaged as I am specifically because I do respect the individuals and their points of view in this community, and I wouldn't be motivated to join the discussion if I didn't. It is my hope that I'm providing something substantial to mull over in return.

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:04 pm
by Red_Robot
Most of those questions can be answered in a fairly non-hand-wavey fashion. A non-transferred plasma torch uses internal electrodes and fires the plasma as a jet out the nozzle. The target does not need to have an electrode attached to it or be grounded. As far as carrier fluid for the jet, you could probably use a solid fuel, perhaps in pelletized form, which you then vaporize within the device using a laser or microwaves or something similar. If you consider 1/3 of a fusion edge's meter long "case" is emitter, 1/3rd is battery, then 1/3rd could be devoted to solid fuel. It's not going to give you an infinite burn, but it would probably be enough for a few minutes. That doesn't sound like much, but that's a long time in a firefight. The practical solution is conserve your ammo.

And if part of the "blade" is a magnetic containment "sheath" to keep the jet from scattering, that might also extend the life of the plasma, allowing you to reduce expenditure of carrier fluid. But this is getting into the area of Not Guns.

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:39 am
by CmdrRook
Sublimating a solid fuel is a very creative solution to the problem, for which I give kudos.

Re: GUNS, GLORIOUS GUNS

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:53 pm
by attackowl