The other ST-0X frames

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The other ST-0X frames

Postby spacemonkey » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:11 pm

So I became curious about what the standard SU military frame would have been and looked like before (and during) uprising on Celiel. It seems apparent from the numerical designations of the Commissar, Chub and Osprey that it likely would have been a ST-0X frame filling this role. While it could have been the ST-07 Chub (whose use would later be popularized/broadened by the UMFL), I had to wonder if wasn't one of the Chub's predecessors like the ST-05 and/or ST-06? Not really knowing anything about these frames and seeing the awesome "ST-05g Guai" frames milt69466 built for his Erythoral knights got digging around to see what I could find out about the ST-0X frames not detailed in the rulebook. The following is what little information I was able to dig up (EDIT: provisional info provided by Soren):

ST-01 (???)
Unknown
Visual Reference
+???

ST-03 (???)
Unknown
Visual Reference
+???

ST-04 (???)
Unknown
Visual Reference
+???

ST-05 (???)
*The principal Southport mobile frame during the War of Martian Unification.
*Considered poorly-armored by postwar standards, but very reliable and easy to repair.
*The 'D' variant is standard issue for Frame Police units.

*Frame design by Soren
Visual Reference
+ST-05D
+ST-05D A

ST-06 (???)
*A Northern Republic design. Heavily armed and armored, but clumsy and unreliable, it's like a laundry list of the reasons the Northern Republic lost the war; they didn't like mobile frames or understand the tactical theory behind them, and simply used the few they built as another kind of light tank, with predictable results.
*The units that survived the war are mostly in museums and private collections.

*Frame design by Soren
Visual Reference
+ST-06H

ST-08 Fat Snake
*Frame design by Soren for Mitten Ninja's Serpent Legion company
Visual Reference
+ST-08SLC Fat Snake

ST-09 Rumble Monkey
*Frame design by Soren
*Prefered mobile frame of the TEM
Visual Reference
+ST-09A Rumble Monkey

So I thought I would share and start this thread in hopes the maybe Soren or Joshua might reveal or confirm the names (and any other details/info) for these other ST-0X designs. ;)
Last edited by spacemonkey on Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Xero010 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:22 pm

:shock: Know one was supposed to know!!! :lol: I always assumed previous models were much like the original Normals in the armored core series, becoming obsolete as they were continuously improved upon. I think an ST-01 would be pretty interesting to see however. Might even just be a power armor, if it exists at all.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Red_Robot » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:39 am

I -think- the ST-05 is called the Diving Beetle.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Soren » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:09 pm

Red_Robot wrote:I -think- the ST-05 is called the Diving Beetle.


I may be shameless about pointing out my influences, but I'm not taking the names ;). I don't have names for anything pre-ST-07; I could make something up. At one point we discussed divvying up the 01-04 designations and filling out the roster, but so far we haven't gotten around to it.

The ST-05 was the principal Southport mobile frame during the War of Martian Unification. It's considered poorly-armored by postwar standards, but very reliable and easy to repair. The 'D' variant is standard issue for Frame Police units.

The ST-06 is a Northern design. Heavily armed and armored, but clumsy and unreliable, it's like a laundry list of the reasons the Northern Republic lost the war; they didn't like mobile frames or understand the tactical theory behind them, and simply used the few they built as another kind of light tank, with predictable results. The units that survived the war are mostly in museums and private collections.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Red_Robot » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:35 pm

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3jukainedpeaq4t/szs7mwVYf6#lh:null-Diving%20Beetle.JPG

I was just gleaning the name from the above image, which looked to be a ST-05 design. If the name is a reference to a giant robot series, it was totally lost on me. ;)
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Zero Revenge » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:40 pm

I am all about this thread!
Soren wrote:The ST-05 was the principal Southport mobile frame during the War of Martian Unification. It's considered poorly-armored by postwar standards, but very reliable and easy to repair. The 'D' variant is standard issue for Frame Police units.

The ST-06 is a Northern design. Heavily armed and armored, but clumsy and unreliable, it's like a laundry list of the reasons the Northern Republic lost the war; they didn't like mobile frames or understand the tactical theory behind them, and simply used the few they built as another kind of light tank, with predictable results. The units that survived the war are mostly in museums and private collections.

Yeeeessss! More delicious designs & fluff!

Red_Robot wrote:If the name is a reference to a giant robot series, it was totally lost on me. ;)

I'm sure it's a VOTOMS reference.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby spacemonkey » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:12 pm

Soren wrote:I don't have names for anything pre-ST-07; I could make something up. At one point we discussed divvying up the 01-04 designations and filling out the roster, but so far we haven't gotten around to it.

It would be pretty cool to at least have some names for the Chub's predecessors. ;)

Thanks for the info on the ST-05 and ST-06! So I'm guessing the ST-05 would have been the prominent military frame until the advent of the ST-07 then? Also it shows just how old the ST-02 Conscript/Commissar design must be given the War of Martian Unification was 70 years prior to the current Solar Calendar date.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:02 pm

Well, it was the last war. MFØ takes place in a time of peace. Most of the actions we play out are police actions, riots, and suppression of cults.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Xero010 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:23 pm

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Well, it was the last war. MFØ takes place in a time of peace. Most of the actions we play out are police actions, riots, and suppression of cults.

I hadn't quite realized this.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby spacemonkey » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:38 pm

Xero010 wrote:
Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Well, it was the last war. MFØ takes place in a time of peace. Most of the actions we play out are police actions, riots, and suppression of cults.

I hadn't quite realized this.

Well a "police action" tends be to little more than an euphemism when your the one being "policed" by a military combat force. That said, despite whatever kind of war zone that might exist on the ground for a particular colony, the Solar Union as a whole/as a galactic state isn't at war; colonies aren't fighting other colonies and certainly neither the Free Colonies or the Ijad are waging any sort of cohesive military effort against the Solar Union. Right now all the current fighting in MFØ is localized to individual colonies between disparate internal factions. As an analogy, consider if the United States was forced to mobilize troops to say the state of Wyoming because fighting had broken out between the state's national guard and an extremist anti-government militia group or religious cult, no one would say the United States was going to war; politically it would be quelling civil unrest or an insurrection despite whatever level of combat the troops involved might actually see. Actual historical references to similar such events would include the Whiskey Rebellion in 1794, the raid on Harpers Ferry in 1859, the Battle of Liberty Place in 1874, or the Battle of Blair Mountain in 1921.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:59 pm

Uh, if I recall what we wrote down, the war on Mars was guys in armored suits and maybe aircraft, spacecraft, or technicals. The mobile frame didn't come into play until Celiel, after the Market Massacre of 0212, when Ijad took the transit gate.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Zero Revenge » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:50 pm

I was just going to say, it seems weird that the Solar Union's designation for their official frame would be one used by a rebelling party. (The ST-06, as mentioned above, used by the Northern Rebels.) Also, it seems weird that the suit listed as the inferior one (06) is given an official S.U. designation better than the 05, which is described as the better suit....
Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Uh, if I recall what we wrote down, the war on Mars was guys in armored suits and maybe aircraft, spacecraft, or technicals. The mobile frame didn't come into play until Celiel, after the Market Massacre of 0212, when Ijad took the transit gate.

This makes more sense, but now the question is, if the 05 and 06 weren't used in the Martian Civil War, what were they used for?
Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Well, it was the last war. MFØ takes place in a time of peace. Most of the actions we play out are police actions, riots, and suppression of cults.

Oh, the S.U. doesn't acknowledge the Ijad religion as an actual religion, but a mere cult?
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Soren » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:54 pm

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Uh, if I recall what we wrote down, the war on Mars was guys in armored suits and maybe aircraft, spacecraft, or technicals. The mobile frame didn't come into play until Celiel, after the Market Massacre of 0212, when Ijad took the transit gate.


I suspect that was all you, then. Well, I can modify; but it makes for a much less interesting background.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Zero Revenge » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:30 pm

Soren wrote:
Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Uh, if I recall what we wrote down, the war on Mars was guys in armored suits and maybe aircraft, spacecraft, or technicals. The mobile frame didn't come into play until Celiel, after the Market Massacre of 0212, when Ijad took the transit gate.


I suspect that was all you, then. Well, I can modify; but it makes for a much less interesting background.

Wait, then Mobile Frame combat's only been a thing for about 40 years? 40 years to go from ST-02 to ST-09? Wow.
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Dukayn » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:48 am

Zero Revenge wrote:40 years to go from ST-02 to ST-09? Wow.

Wow as in that's not long or vice versa?

I was going to make a comment about military hardware from 40 years ago, but then realised that most countries still use hardware designed in the 70s like the Blackhawk and the M16 :P
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Xero010 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:39 am

Dukayn wrote:
Zero Revenge wrote:40 years to go from ST-02 to ST-09? Wow.

Wow as in that's not long or vice versa?

I was going to make a comment about military hardware from 40 years ago, but then realised that most countries still use hardware designed in the 70s like the Blackhawk and the M16 :P

I find that to be pretty fast actually. Was there that serious a need for the advancement of technology then?
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Zero Revenge » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:37 am

Dukayn wrote:
Zero Revenge wrote:40 years to go from ST-02 to ST-09? Wow.

Wow as in that's not long or vice versa?

I was going to make a comment about military hardware from 40 years ago, but then realised that most countries still use hardware designed in the 70s like the Blackhawk and the M16 :P

As in, "that seems awfully fast to burn through so many frames as your nation's main fighting unit".

Like, unheard-of-fast. That's more than 2 a decade. For an entirely new unit. It isn't like the M16, which has become the M16A, A2, etc. Different little tweaks here and there, but is ultimately the same gun. So, there isn't an ST-04A, then B or C... but whole new units?

Mobile Frame technology must have been ON A ROLL for those forty years!
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby spacemonkey » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:34 pm

Zero Revenge wrote:
Soren wrote:
Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Uh, if I recall what we wrote down, the war on Mars was guys in armored suits and maybe aircraft, spacecraft, or technicals. The mobile frame didn't come into play until Celiel, after the Market Massacre of 0212, when Ijad took the transit gate.


I suspect that was all you, then. Well, I can modify; but it makes for a much less interesting background.

Wait, then Mobile Frame combat's only been a thing for about 40 years? 40 years to go from ST-02 to ST-09? Wow.

Have to agree with Zero Revenge, this doesn't sound right at all. I mean going from the timeline in the rulebook the mobile/labor frame was invented in SC 0054 but the War of Martian Unification didn't take place until SC 0175; I would have thought there would have been some military application of mobile frame technology in that 121 years, much less before the Celiel uprising 37 years later. I could understand there not being a dedicated/standard combat frame until SC 0100 or so when the Solar Union's rapid expansion might have finally necessitated/justified the development a more efficient (mass and cost) combat platform to "police" the growing volume of colonies but that's still decades before the war on Mars. :?

Additionally frame warfare only starting after Celiel really grates against the implied time frame of development between the ST-02 and ST-07 presented in the book:
MFØ Rulebook, pg 162 wrote:Originally called the Conscript, the ST-02 was designed decades ago for combat logistics. However with the advent of the ST-03 standard, the incompatible 02 quickly fell out of favor."

MFØ Rulebook, pg 170 wrote:With the founding of the United Mars Foreign Legion in SC 0212 came the need for an inexpensive and reliable mobile frame that could easily be built from local parts and modified to local conditions. Based on the ST-03 standard, the ST-07 is now used by almost all UMFL companies.

Sure, SC 0212 could have been the "decades ago" for the ST-02 design but to have the ST-07 developed 0-4 years later (the UMFL founding date is stated as 0216 earlier in the book) doesn't seem to add up, especially if there is supposed to have been the adoption of a ST-03 standard somewhere between there. :(

Based on the info in the rulebook I had sort of assumed that the ST-02 would have seen action in the War of Martian Unification either as the standard military frame of the time or as the old standby. I can imagine the conflict being the catalyst for the development for an improved and more robust combat frame or perhaps the ST-03 was also present but it's superior performance overshadowed the ST-02; either scenario would lead to the ST-03 becoming the new standard for combat frames leading to the ST-02 falling out of favor. In turn this would leave 37-41 years for the development from the ST-02 or ST-03 to the ST-07 which seems more reasonable given the intervening iterations. Also the ST-07 being easily "built and modified from local parts" makes more sense if there is a larger intervening period in which other frames based on (or derived from) the ST-03 standard spread throughout the volume of the Solar Union's colonies. That said, Soren's original proposition of the ST-05 and ST-06 fighting it out during the War of Martian Unification would also work with the timeline in the rulebook; it would just mean the ST-0X line of combat frames was started earlier in the timeline and there were longer development cycles between designs.

Seems like Joshua and Soren need to hash out of few "historical" details and get back to us. Such information could even tie in with Alpha Bandit as I imagine there would have been some interesting fleet actions during the War of Martian Unification, maybe even the first frame-to-ship combat situations. Also they could come up with some frame names for the other ST-0X frames while they're at it. ;)
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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Hackjob » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:34 pm

Very interested in this thread! I too, have wondered what the othe ST designations look like.

On the subject of "combat frame" advancement in the past 40 years. I don't think of it as the advancement of military avionic tech from the 1970"s to now (minimal change). I think of it more like the development of combat aircraft from say, 1915 to 1955. I that 4 decade span we went from airplanes with wooden frames and cloth bound wings (which incidentally, were sealed with a highly flammable lacquer), to jet fighters with pressurized cockpits, internal computers and radar capable of supersonic flight. Prior to WWI, most generals considered aircraft to be a "gimmic" with little to no tactical value. So if the past 40 years of the solar calendar are the real beginnings of combat frame use, I see the development of new frames as pretty reasonable. In fact I now kinda see all the awesome frames the MF0 community has been making as equivilent to the wide array of new combat aircraft types created from the 60's to the 80's.

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Re: The other ST-0X frames

Postby Xero010 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:28 pm

You make an interesting point. The frames of recent are almost vastly different from the ones of eons ago..
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