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SU vs SU

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:26 am
by gusindor
So, it's fairly easy to imagine Free Colonies being at odds over policy or resources or something, and my impression of the Ijad as a united force recently vanished in a puff of logic and inter-tribal war. Bandits and mercenaries can fight whoever they want as long as they're getting paid, and sometimes even if they aren't.

But what if my friend and I want to have a battle, and we both brought Solar Union troops? Can that fit within the fluff?

Re: SU vs SU

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:53 pm
by gatlinggouf927
It's happening on Arcadia, it's a relatively newer settlement with LOTS of interested parties, so corporate warfare was the way we worked it in :D

Re: SU vs SU

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:55 pm
by MusicalMethuselah
Far from home, two contingents of the Solar Union struggle to survive on an unforgiving landscape. Dozens of men have already perished from the unstable climate and wild animals. Any chance of the battalions finding the Free Colony they were sent to destroy has long gone, and outgoing communication with home is met with static.

Supplies are short.

Faced with the chance of never returning to the Solar Union, the battalions desperately try to forage for food and fuel, to no avail. Finally, the thought dawns on both commanding officers...

The only suitable supplies on this God-forsaken rock are in the hands of the other brigade.

Quietly, both sides prepare for battle, hoping to prevail in their surprise attack, deeply ashamed of their own treachery....


Yeah, I don't know, you could do something like that. Have stations be comms, food, fuel dumps, ammo, whatever. :)

Re: SU vs SU

PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:10 am
by Soren
Colonial empires often include private armies, or the sort of people who use local forces as a private army. It's not hard to see some of these people getting in the way of each other. It's also not hard to see mutinies, rebellions, coups, and simple greed sucking in various bits and pieces of Solar Union forces on opposite sides.

Re: SU vs SU

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:35 am
by addking
When this happened in a game (SU vs SU) for my group, we wrote it off as conflicting orders (local gate vs from Earth). I could also see miscommunication (your group wasn't supposed to be out there!) or a happenstance of disputed territory. A Joint exercise where a couple of hotheads in walking tanks decide to have a go at each other could be rather complicated... "friendly" fire could certainly cause some tiffs/reactions.

Re: SU vs SU

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:47 pm
by Zero Revenge
Corporate Warfare is likely the easiest way to do this, and is how I [we, but speaking for myself] have done it on Arcadia. We have 3 Corporations.

1.) Originally tasked with cleaning up & colonizing the planet, sent with a group of TEM's.
2.) Another corporation who wants the planet, wasn't officially given the go-ahead, but with bribes and other political favors has now being granted clearance to be there. They have their own private "PMC" army.
3.) Corporation who controls the Transit Gate, and has its own TTM unit stationed there.

The Solar Union bigwigs back on Sol told them to play nice, and ensure that Arcadia becomes a SU colony. Remove the internal threats, the Free Colonists and Ijad there.

But Sol is 2 transit jumps away... and only the Transit Gate can receive orders directly... if armies on the surface don't get them, or refuse to follow them... well.... Ever play Armored Core?

Soren wrote:Colonial empires often include private armies, or the sort of people who use local forces as a private army. It's not hard to see some of these people getting in the way of each other. It's also not hard to see mutinies, rebellions, coups, and simple greed sucking in various bits and pieces of Solar Union forces on opposite sides.

Ah, the British East India Company.

Re: SU vs SU

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:17 pm
by Joshua A.C. Newman
Season 1, Episode 1 of VOTOMS features just this kind of monkey business. If there's one thing you can ever say of bureaucracies (such as corporations, governments, and militaries), it's that the left hand might now know what the right is doing, but sure wants them to take the blame for whatever goes wrong when the situation hutches. Sometimes, you have to go to extremes to make sure the blame falls the right way.

There are also conflicting mandates: UMFL pilots are like a police force. They keep the peace. The intention is obviously to suppress uprisings, but, being local (or close to it) might actually care about, you know, keeping the peace. Peace that could be disrupted when some TTMs are given disruptive orders from the transit gate above.

Or TEMs might find themselves making strategic decisions that suit their own orders but are not in the (perhaps secret) interest of the local transit (or other) corporation, and therefore not their TTMs.

Re: SU vs SU

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:02 pm
by darksyntax
Kaiser1917 and I had a TEMs vs TEMs game at PAX. We just declared it a training exercise.

Re: SU vs SU

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:24 pm
by MittenNinja
darksyntax wrote:Kaiser1917 and I had a TEMs vs TEMs game at PAX. We just declared it a training exercise.

This is probably the most simplistic way of rationalizing it. But I see the whole "left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing" thing being the best reason.

Re: SU vs SU

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:20 pm
by Xero010
As far as I'm concerned, everything in the SU is corrupt. I think this idealogoy comes from my playing AC:FA and watching so much gundam. When you have such a far expanding empire, there's no reason certain generals won't hink they can't get away with kiling off fellow forces who seem to waste resources and are deemed unfit. Hey, it happened to the Space Marines...

Re: SU vs SU

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:25 am
by Joshua A.C. Newman
The SU is no more corrupt than the other factions. And they're the only one with a stable, representative democracy.

Re: SU vs SU

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:22 am
by Soren
Well, some of the constituent parts are pretty corrupt. But not by design. And compared to a council of tribal elders, a militant priesthood, a revolutionary tribunal, or some of the other, more colorful options... they're barely corrupt at all. After all, you have to have a judicial process and at least the appearance of the rule of law for 'corruption' to be distinct from 'business as usual'.

The big stumbling block is that the colonies are extraterritorial to the Solar Union proper. Older colonies might have a relationship more like the one Puerto Rico has with the continental United States; close association, and an organized lobby for their interests, but no direct representation. Newer ones are various kinds of commercial satrapy, owned by the development corporations that organized them. In theory, they're under Solar Union jurisdiction, but theory and practice have a way of... diverging... over interstellar distances, and the lack of legislative representation and free access to the Solar Union judiciary make it really hard to report, and curtail, abuses of power.

Or Panama. The Panama Canal Zone (before it was returned to Panama, which coincidentally runs it better and more efficiently) is a good model, both in terms of the political relationship it had to the United States proper, and the relative imbalance of power.