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Re: Access to a transit gate

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:30 pm
by Zero Revenge
Soren wrote:Yeah, right now it's all crises and police actions and the full dickweedish gamut of awful-things-that-are-not-quite-war. It's effectively a war, and certainly people are choosing sides and treating it like a war. But it's not at the level where sending barrages of long-range missiles through gates to obliterate planets is on the table.

Yet.

I didn't think "obliterating planets" was a tactic still left on the table. That seems super extreme. But, I understand what you're pointing it. It's more Vietnam [Cold War era in general] than WWII.

Re: Access to a transit gate

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:46 pm
by Foxfire
Zero Revenge wrote:
Soren wrote:Yeah, right now it's all crises and police actions and the full dickweedish gamut of awful-things-that-are-not-quite-war. It's effectively a war, and certainly people are choosing sides and treating it like a war. But it's not at the level where sending barrages of long-range missiles through gates to obliterate planets is on the table.

Yet.

I didn't think "obliterating planets" was a tactic still left on the table. That seems super extreme. But, I understand what you're pointing it. It's more Vietnam [Cold War era in general] than WWII.


Since this is really about resources, it really isn't on the table. If you obliterate a planet, you basically make it unusuable by both sides. Currently, all sides thing it is far better to take the planet away from an enemy, than to obliterate it entirely. If that thinking changes....

Re: Access to a transit gate

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:30 pm
by ChaosChild
That's why things are different when it escalates to a full-blown war. Eventually, it gets to a point where it's more important to deny the resources to the enemy than it is to acquire them yourselves. And to hell with the innocent civilians who happen to live on those resources.

Re: Access to a transit gate

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:56 am
by Soren
Well, in a total war, if they're giving you everything they've got, everything they've got is fair game. It's unlikely to happen in this particular setting any time soon, because they did after all just recently fight a total war on Mars - there's a boom-and-bust cycle to these things, tied to when the last few veterans of the most recent total war die. But in the future? It could get very ugly indeed.

Re: Access to a transit gate

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:37 am
by Joshua A.C. Newman
A CIA contractor friend of mine calls that, in the dry verbiage of their trade, "an uncomfortable shift of power."

Re: Access to a transit gate

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:57 pm
by Zero Revenge
Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:A CIA contractor friend of mine calls that, in the dry verbiage of their trade, "an uncomfortable shift of power."

Speaking of the CIA, is there a Solar Union counterpart?

Re: Access to a transit gate

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:30 pm
by peglegpete
catching up on the thread, and i have a "weaponized tranist gate" theory.

it is totally impractiacle, but that's what makes it fun. I'm a big fan of Heinlein, and he mentions in, i think, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress using rail guns to shoot big rocks at earth. They're able to use their fully-aware AI to calculate exactly where each asteroid will fall, which would not work at all in this setting, but the idea of some really angry SU official sending a ship-sized asteroid through a gate just to cause random destruction feels..right somehow.

And if the resource of the world happens to be underground, the official might luck out and bring more of that resource to the surface...

Again, this is totally unlikely, but i'd chalk it up to "terror weapon" and let it hang out there.

Re: Access to a transit gate

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:58 am
by Soren
That's the kind of thing that gets called a war crime in the real world.

Re: Access to a transit gate

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:50 pm
by gusindor
Soren wrote:That's the kind of thing that gets called a war crime in the real world.

So is sending a child into battle, yet notice how often schoolkids end up piloting mecha?

That said, hurling asteroids at a planet would be a terrible thing to do. Unless they're small enough to burn up in the atmosphere, in which case it's like fireworks.

Re: Access to a transit gate

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:03 pm
by Foghammer
gusindor wrote:
Soren wrote:That's the kind of thing that gets called a war crime in the real world.

So is sending a child into battle, yet notice how often schoolkids end up piloting mecha?

That said, hurling asteroids at a planet would be a terrible thing to do. Unless they're small enough to burn up in the atmosphere, in which case it's like fireworks.


I think his point still stands, bro. ;) (Emphasis mine.)

Re: Access to a transit gate

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:24 pm
by peglegpete
it would be a pretty terrible thing to do. In the book the first rock is relatively small, and directed away from a population center. one of the big reasons for the war in the first place was over resource control...one of which was oxygen. when your enemy has the power to wipe out an entire city by just turning off the air, you tend to get desparate. they also only use the one rock, and divert the rest after they are allowed their indepence.

things aren't generally that bad in the Solar Calendar, but that doesn't mean that there's not a whacko out there that would try it anyway...some planetery governor who wants to live like a plantation owner in orbit and gets upset when the populace starts to revolt, maybe. someone who is operating outside of official sanctions because he thinks he's untouchable. people commit war crimes for a lot of different reasons.