Melee weapons tech

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Melee weapons tech

Postby gusindor » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:20 am

I've seen plenty of solid blades of all types, several lightsabers & heat hawks (thermohawks?) and I've recently made a bunch of frames that use chainswords. So I'm just wondering, what kind of tech is standard for melee weapons? I'm guessing laser weapons are higher tech than solid blades, but is it that lightsabers are super new and rare, or that solid blades are outdated and only used for want of something better? (until you sharpen them to a monomolecular edge, heat them so they glow, or vibrate them at insane speeds) Or something else altogether, maybe some situations make different types of weapons impractical, like if beam weapons don't work underwater?
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby Xero010 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:25 am

Anything that can be used to hit another Frame within HtH can be called a melee weapon, whether it be your mitts, a shovel, or even if your frame is swinging its gun on the end of a chain. As far as environmental limitations, that can count under the special rule that if your frame doesn't have a d6G it loses a d6W , since the white die can be used for HtH attacks.
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby gusindor » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:11 pm

Green dice let frames move through cover, if they also let frames operate unhindered in hostile environments that seems a bit overpowered. Personally, I like the way "space attachments" worked; in some environments, like space, frames only get one d6W unless they have an attachment to help with that environment. The downside is, "space attachments" don't give any bonus in a non-hostile environment. Using watery terrain as an example, d6G will let you jump, fly or skim across water in a land-based battle, but if the battle is underwater you need a special attachment to function normally.

I know how the rules work for melee weapons (thanks anyway), but I'm really wondering about the fluff.
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby Soren » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:10 pm

Xero010 wrote:Anything that can be used to hit another Frame within HtH can be called a melee weapon, whether it be your mitts, a shovel, or even if your frame is swinging its gun on the end of a chain. As far as environmental limitations, that can count under the special rule that if your frame doesn't have a d6G it loses a d6W , since the white die can be used for HtH attacks.


Yeah, you're talking to one of the designers. He's in the Kickstarter video and everything (I'm not, before you ask).

gusindor wrote:I'm just wondering, what kind of tech is standard for melee weapons? I'm guessing laser weapons are higher tech than solid blades, but is it that lightsabers are super new and rare, or that solid blades are outdated and only used for want of something better? (until you sharpen them to a monomolecular edge, heat them so they glow, or vibrate them at insane speeds) Or something else altogether, maybe some situations make different types of weapons impractical, like if beam weapons don't work underwater?


Seb, I always figured the logic behind energy-blade weapons wasn't effectiveness, but weight: you carry them as a backup weapon. At any given level of realism, you probably want the solid melee weapon if it's just a matter of how much damage it does, but if you can have a rifle and a stabber both for a given weight, you ventilate the guy with the solid sword or polearm before he gets to use it. These also aren't very heavy robots; swinging around a significant fraction of your total weight is a good way to fall down.

Also keep in mind how much we're bending plausibilty to have melee combat at all. In reality, the ranges would be ten times longer, and the game would end in one side being totally obliterated by an airstrike a significant part of the time.
Last edited by Soren on Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby XGundam05 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:56 pm

Soren wrote:These also aren't very heavy robots; swinging around a significant fraction of your total weight is a good way to fall down.


Keep in mind though, that if they're being built correctly, the melee weapons shouldn't be a significant fraction of the total weight. Arming swords (standard length swords of ~2-3 feet) weighed in at only around 2-3 pounds, and longswords came in at ~4-5 pounds. Which is hardly a significant fraction for most grown adults. And so, without looking up any manufacturing stuffs in the Machinists Handbook, I think that frame-based melee weapons should wind up following a similar proportion. Also, this badass was known to use a longbow and Scottish broadsword in WWII.
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby Dukayn » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:28 pm

Soren wrote:Yeah, you're talking to one of the designers. He's in the Kickstarter video and everything (I'm not, before you ask).

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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby Xero010 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:08 pm

Wait what? No I'm not Seb. I'm Xero :P Lol I think Soren meant Gusindor, sorry Gusindor btw. Didn't know I was talking to the game designer. I fell humbled to be in you and Soren's presence.
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby Dukayn » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:46 pm

Oh ok so Gusindor is Seb? I'm confused.
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby Soren » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:46 pm

Fixed! Should be less confuzzling now.

Confuzzlous? Anyway:

XGundam05 wrote:
Soren wrote:These also aren't very heavy robots; swinging around a significant fraction of your total weight is a good way to fall down.


Keep in mind though, that if they're being built correctly, the melee weapons shouldn't be a significant fraction of the total weight. Arming swords (standard length swords of ~2-3 feet) weighed in at only around 2-3 pounds, and longswords came in at ~4-5 pounds. Which is hardly a significant fraction for most grown adults. And so, without looking up any manufacturing stuffs in the Machinists Handbook, I think that frame-based melee weapons should wind up following a similar proportion. Also, this badass was known to use a longbow and Scottish broadsword in WWII.


Square-cube law: it's not a linear relationship. But this isn't 2300 AD; you get to bend physics all you want in the name of fun and style (as did they, but much less than we usually do).
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby Xero010 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:41 am

You know, technically quads would have a much more solid base for swinging well, anything, even more than a biped, and they can kick twice as many people in the face while doing so :P But yeah, swords and energy sabers wouldn't have problems with weight distribution, but things like hammers and such would have to be swung down on to the target, and not sideways.
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby XGundam05 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:04 am

Soren wrote:Square-cube law: it's not a linear relationship. But this isn't 2300 AD; you get to bend physics all you want in the name of fun and style (as did they, but much less than we usually do).

That, I cannot believe I forgot (especially after having just been discussing giant exoskeletal beings not an hour before posting) :oops:
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby Soren » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:11 am

XGundam05 wrote:
Soren wrote:Square-cube law: it's not a linear relationship. But this isn't 2300 AD; you get to bend physics all you want in the name of fun and style (as did they, but much less than we usually do).

That, I cannot believe I forgot (especially after having just been discussing giant exoskeletal beings not an hour before posting) :oops:


Powers of logic and thinking are the first casualty of any internet discussion ;). I'm as guilty as anybody of that.
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby ChaosChild » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:34 am

Xero010 wrote:they can kick twice as many people in the face while doing so :P


Depending on the pilot's sense of balance, potentially 3 times as many people. :D
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby gusindor » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:40 pm

Dukayn wrote:Oh ok so Gusindor is Seb? I'm confused.

Yes, I'm Seb. Hi! Who are you?
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby gusindor » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:48 pm

Soren wrote:
XGundam05 wrote:Keep in mind though, that if they're being built correctly, the melee weapons shouldn't be a significant fraction of the total weight. Arming swords (standard length swords of ~2-3 feet) weighed in at only around 2-3 pounds, and longswords came in at ~4-5 pounds. Which is hardly a significant fraction for most grown adults. And so, without looking up any manufacturing stuffs in the Machinists Handbook, I think that frame-based melee weapons should wind up following a similar proportion. Also, this badass was known to use a longbow and Scottish broadsword in WWII.


Square-cube law: it's not a linear relationship.
We could get around that with more advanced materials & forging techniques.
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby Dukayn » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:18 pm

gusindor wrote:
Dukayn wrote:Oh ok so Gusindor is Seb? I'm confused.

Yes, I'm Seb. Hi! Who are you?

Me? I'm no-one :P That wasn't a "oh hey I know that guy", more of a "oh hey you helped make this game. You're awesome." :)
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby gusindor » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:56 pm

ChaosChild wrote:
Xero010 wrote:they can kick twice as many people in the face while doing so :P


Depending on the pilot's sense of balance, potentially 3 times as many people. :D

Or 4 if they're able to do a flying kick or breakdaning spin...
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Re: Melee weapons tech

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:44 pm

The way I wrote it up in the book, plasma edges are an industrial tool that turns out to be great as a weapon. Of course, by the rules, it's only as effective as a shovel. Given the choice between a bubbling, shining beam of light and a shovel, though, you can guess which a Terran Transit Marine would choose and which one the construction bot would choose. But, as I became fond of saying in games of Cyberpunk, "Just how dead do you want the guy?"

The real reason they're there is because I knew that people were going to put lightsabers on their frames and I wanted to place it within the context of the setting. If it were up to me, it would be all crowbars, combat knives, and arm punches.



Same as antigravity. If it works, it would blow the rest of the setting out of the water, so I gave it some fun constraints (it dissipates gravity, so it can make stuff float, and takes energy ) so it just means we can make all sorts of crazy helicopter things.
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