TTMs and the Battle(s) for Celiel Station

[spacemonkey]

Reading through the rulebook PDF and a couple lines raised some background questions for me:
Page 19: "By the time the Solar Union’s Terran Trade Marines arrived through the transit gate, they discovered it completely controlled by local interests. They fought a hard retreat to get their transport back through the transit gate, returning to Solar territory bearing intelligence of an alien invasion."

I'm curious if this means that when the Terran Transit Marines stationed on Celiel Station believed their gate to be threatened did they request aid from TTMs at another gate or did they request backup from some sort of rapid reaction force that the TTA keeps on standby for such situations? I'm guessing who responds in an emergency might vary depending on the who can arrive faster given the days/weeks it can take to lock onto a receiving gate? Are there standard procedures TTMs follow when faced with losing control of their gate?

Also how exactly did the Ijad seize control of the gate? Was there subterfuge involved or just an all out assault?

Page 48:"The first such adapted technology was the labor frame. The very first were simple copies (or often, actual specimens) of humanoid frames, adjusted to equip a human-Ijad pair in defense of the Ijad-occupied transit gate of Celiel Station against Terran Expeditionary Marines."

The details of the Solar Union's response to the alien "invasion" are pretty sparse except for the eventual creation of the UMFL, but this confirms the SU made at least one attempt to recover Celiel Station. Did the SU make multiple attacks and/or is it still attempting to recover the gate? While the SU now seems reliant on a containment strategy regarding the Ijad, was or is there any particular plan on how they would deal with the Ijad should Celiel Station be recovered? I'm guessing some of the answers lie in the economics of the situation.


Anyway just hoping for any more details surrounding one of the big turning points in the Solar Calendar setting.

[Kaiser1917]

I'm curious if this means that when the Terran Transit Marines stationed on Celiel Station believed their gate to be threatened did they request aid from TTMs at another gate or did they request backup from some sort of rapid reaction force that the TTA keeps on standby for such situations? I'm guessing who responds in an emergency might vary depending on the who can arrive faster given the days/weeks it can take to lock onto a receiving gate? Are there standard procedures TTMs follow when faced with losing control of their gate?

Also how exactly did the Ijad seize control of the gate? Was there subterfuge involved or just an all out assault?

The details of the Solar Union's response to the alien "invasion" are pretty sparse except for the eventual creation of the UMFL, but this confirms the SU made at least one attempt to recover Celiel Station. Did the SU make multiple attacks and/or is it still attempting to recover the gate? While the SU now seems reliant on a containment strategy regarding the Ijad, was or is there any particular plan on how they would deal with the Ijad should Celiel Station be recovered?

I would also be very interested in the answers to these questions.

[Zero Revenge]

I agree, these are some excellent questions. I'd love to get more insight into the inner workings of the SU clockwork.

And... so much for the SU's containment plan. Seems like it's been an overall failure... >__>

As History has proven, for a starving Empire, barely able to keep its territory, it's about time to either relinquish their lands (not an option) or start to really tighten their grip...

Ah! Space Politics! <3

[Mercutio]

Those are very much worthwhile questions to answer, but were I to hazard a guess, I'd say that it leaves you the player/ writer to fill in those blocks yourself.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

Some of these questions have answers and some are for you guys to answer! I'll have to go back and look at the timeline to give the concrete answers and I can't do that right now; I'm having a color issue with the book that I'm working on instead. I hope you understand.

[spacemonkey]

Completely understandable; getting the book printed is and should be priority number one. I look forward to seeing your answers when you get the time.

And... so much for the SU's containment plan. Seems like it's been an overall failure... >__>

Well the way I see it, the Solar Union containment of the Ijad isn't particularly viable for two main reasons: 1) Given the nature of the gates, there isn't any practical way to blockade a system from the rest of the galaxy. Once the Ijad captured the gate, they could literally go anywhere. I would guess this was fairly unique scenario as most rebellious planets/systems prior to this were likely seeking to isolate themselves from the SU; thus the SU was hardly expecting anyone to mount an invasion of their territory. 2) The Ijad aren't mounting a traditional war against the SU. Instead of launching an invasion of conquest, which would have likely rallied a more aggressive/cohesive response against the "invaders," the Ijad are pursuing an invasion of conversion. By reaching out the abandoned colonies first, the Ijad gained new converts and new footholds amongst the stars all with minimal bloodshed. As the Ijad continue to spread into more loyal colonies the potential for conflict increases (and that's when we get to start playing with Mobile Frames ). The SU's containment goal will remain unobtainable so long as they continue trying to respond militarily to what is largely an ideological (and economic) battle.

[Zero Revenge]

Well... crap. So, what can the SU do? Simply slow down the amount of resources they lose to the alien prophets?

That won't work. It'll only slow the bleeding. It's hard to counter-influence the religious enemy when your "religion" is Capitalism. I mean sure, Greed can help. But people who are willing to die for an imaginary cause are a dangerous enemy. Normally is when I'd say the SU would clamp down and "cauterize" the wound that is the Ijad invasion.

But who knows how one would even go about that! Seriously, what can the Solar Union do?

[Kaiser1917]

"Nuke the site from orbit; it's the only way to be sure." -Ellen Ripley.

[Kaiser1917]

Well... crap. So, what can the SU do? Simply slow down the amount of resources they lose to the alien prophets?

That won't work. It'll only slow the bleeding. It's hard to counter-influence the religious enemy when your "religion" is Capitalism. I mean sure, Greed can help. But people who are willing to die for an imaginary cause are a dangerous enemy. Normally is when I'd say the SU would clamp down and "cauterize" the wound that is the Ijad invasion.

But who knows how one would even go about that! Seriously, what can the Solar Union do?

I've been re-reading World War Z, and the section on why the USA didn't respond to the zombie threat is interesting. Mounting an offensive on a global scale, even against relatively small, scattered pockets of resistance takes a tremendous amount of resources (even more so when you need to use transit gates), both in terms of treasure and in popular support. I don't know how much of either of those things the SU has to spare.
Going to war with an idea, like the Ijad perception of personal freedom/independence/religion, would be next to impossible. You can combat it with propaganda, and you can go as far as total genocide, but even then there's no guarantee it will be stamped out. And if you do resort to ultimate extreme measures (Death Star) How long will the populace continue to support you?

[Soren]

I have answers to some of these questions! Or at least, possible answers. Here's one possible scenario:

Traditional Ijad warfare involves a lot of targeted assassinations of hosts (athuum-etuteh, 'precise animal-death') prior to joining battle - in 'classical' (precontact) Ijad cultures, it was considered a sign of viciousness and poor form to actually kill symbiotes. Warfare with humans presented a dilemma; how to minimize the religiously-proscribed etuih (person-death, contrasted with etuteh, which is not forbidden), without being completely ineffectual in combat using the indiscriminate weapons of industrial warfare?

The answer turned out to be 'kill all the leaders'. The remainder of the marines and colonial administration were offered a choice: fight on, or assimilate into Ijad society. Enough took the latter option that victory was assured.

I would imagine there's a reaction force; where precisely it's stationed, you're free to make up. The Solar Union's official position is that gates are the rightful property of the company that built them, and that gates they don't control are 'stolen'. In practice, they've most likely agreed that it's not practical to keep trying to recover the heavily-defended Quall and Celiel gates.

[Zero Revenge]

Hooray! And Soren comes to satiate our setting needs!

...And targeted assassinations... that's... that's good. Not terrifying at all. So, it's conversion by the sword.

[Soren]

Well, killing an animal you ride and killing you are different thing if you're Ijad. Figuring out the ethics of the situation as it applied to humans took some doing. In the end, they opted for killing the smallest number of people they needed to, which seems pretty fair to me.

[Zero Revenge]

Well, killing an animal you ride and killing you are different thing if you're Ijad. Figuring out the ethics of the situation as it applied to humans took some doing. In the end, they opted for killing the smallest number of people they needed to, which seems pretty fair to me.

Well I... But what about...

...Yeah, you make a very good point. It's a good thing we don't use drones in MFZ... hahaha...

So, the Ijad's main tactic is assassinations. I'm assuming with frames, not car-bombs and the like, right?

And like always, any and all insight to the Solar Calendar is appreciated.
I can't eat this up fast enough, particularly as a setting writer.

[Soren]

Ideally by the most subtle, precise method possible, actually, so even frames are too much for this particular form of power play. Remember, unbonded Ijad are ludicrously vulnerable, hand-sized creatures; if they start really gunning for each other, they could kill whole tribes off pretty fast. They're fragile, and they need to ride something or someone to have a civilization. Extended campaigns of athuum-etuteh are one of those things-other-than-war that Ijad fight among themselves.

There's a whole genre of martial poetry extolling the precision, the guile, the perfect orchestration... it's the equivalent of duelling. Ijad extol mental qualities rather than physical ones, because you can hop into the body of whatever animal you need, but having the perfect combination of ruthlessness, aesthetic sensibility, and ambition is how they express their sense of martial virtue.

[gatlinggouf927]

Ideally by the most subtle, precise method possible, actually, so even frames are too much for this particular form of power play. Remember, unbonded Ijad are ludicrously vulnerable, hand-sized creatures; if they start really gunning for each other, they could kill whole tribes off pretty fast. They're fragile, and they need to ride something or someone to have a civilization. Extended campaigns of athuum-etuteh are one of those things-other-than-war that Ijad fight among themselves.

There's a whole genre of martial poetry extolling the precision, the guile, the perfect orchestration... it's the equivalent of duelling. Ijad extol mental qualities rather than physical ones, because you can hop into the body of whatever animal you need, but having the perfect combination of ruthlessness, aesthetic sensibility, and ambition is how they express their sense of martial virtue.

Hmmm, so hypothetically, lets say on earth. If an Ijad was trying to kill a high value target in a jungle setting. He would be highly regarded for bonding with a panther, tiger or any other apex stalking predator to do the job, right?

Something that has evolved so that nearly every aspect of it's physiology is attuned to perform better in it's environment. Also the kill would look like a simple animal attack incident. It'd be a flawless assassination.