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Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:04 am
by Wadmaasi
Are Ijad a spiritual/philosophical movement more akin to Buddhism/Shintoatoism or a literal, "God wants it this Way!" sorta thing?

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:31 am
by Joshua A.C. Newman
Wadmaasi wrote:
MittenNinja wrote:If the SU can beat out the resistance they will have enough materials to supply expeditions to numerous other galaxies.

Uhhh...hey, boss? Galaxies are big. Big. Inconceivably so,


Oh, yeah, definitely. This is all taking place in a tiny slice of a galaxy. Maybe a few hundred solar systems, tops. On a picture of a galaxy, this is all taking place in one pixel.

Also, I'm stumbling a bit over the fact that the SU abandons colonies when the ROI dips too low...but these self-same colonies can immediately begin to recruit, train, pay, and arm militias. For every colony/cell/unit that rebels and joins The Movement, likely another says, "F U homeslice, loyalty to Mother Terra > all.


No one said it was a reliably good idea. And not only can they not count on their fellow colonies to have had the same response, they can't even count on their own colony having any sort of unity. I'm looking forward to hearing about some colonies where the Free Colonies are not only struggling for recruits, but struggling against rival cells and organizations. The Spanish Civil War is good inspiration for this, naturally: the Republicans were backed by people from all over the world including the USSR, but it turned out Stalin had no interest in a nation he couldn't control, and there were deep, horrifically violent rifts between Republican factions. Not to mention the Fascist Falangists, who were the ones actually rising up against the government.

So, in MFØ terms, the Soviet Union is the SU, and the Falangists and Republicans are both Free Colonies. Among the Republicans, some are Anarchists (who are most like the Ijad) and some align with Democratic Socialism who are like Sweden, or whatever; what turned out in the latter 20th century to be a normal, European state.

(NB: Senator McCarthy considered Americans who fought against the Fascists in Spain to be "premature anti-Fascists" and therefore Communist sympathizers and therefore anti-American. These things get very, very unpleasant in really gnarly, asymmetrical ways.)

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:30 am
by MittenNinja
Wadmaasi wrote:
MittenNinja wrote:If the SU can beat out the resistance they will have enough materials to supply expeditions to numerous other galaxies.

Uhhh...hey, boss? Galaxies are big. Big. Inconceivably so,

Also, I'm stumbling a bit over the fact that the SU abandons colonies when the ROI dips too low...but these self-same colonies can immediately begin to recruit, train, pay, and arm militias. For every colony/cell/unit that rebels and joins The Movement, likely another says, "F U homeslice, loyalty to Mother Terra > all.


Yeah, that should read systems, not galaxies. on Orion 6 at least, there are still a ton of resources. Mining operations were just starting to get into full swing when the riots on Quall happened, and then the Orion colonists followed suit.

A charismatic and inspirational leader can get thousands, if not millions of people to rally behind a cause. This is also the case on Orion 6. The OCFM (Orion Colonist Freedom Movement) rallies behind such a leader (whom I'm fleshing out currently).

Think of the American Colonies during the war of independence. Those militia were not well payed, trained, or armed. They are out manned, out gunned, and the only thing holding them on the battle lines is the desire to be free. Such is the life of a resistance member.

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:51 am
by Soren
Keep in mind that "having resources that are profitable to extract", and "having resources that are profitable to extract and ship through a stargate" are intersecting but not inseparable categories. And in fact, I imagine most conflicts between colony development corporations and colonists start over how infrastructure is allocated - if the company says 'we want to harvest all the peaches as fast as possible, and you guys are just going to have to live in these flimsy prefab shelters which we've made conveniently available at the company store' while the colonists want to set up a nice little mixed economy and start building houses with all that nice local timber... well, blood's gonna flow sooner or later.

MittenNinja wrote:Think of the American Colonies during the war of independence. Those militia were not well payed, trained, or armed. They are out manned, out gunned, and the only thing holding them on the battle lines is the desire to be free. Such is the life of a resistance member.


Mm, the Colonial militias also broke and ran from battle fairly frequently. That's the problem - eventually, you need a regular army that reliably fights when and where you tell it to, and that means you need a government that is (hopefully) accountable to more than one person.

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:57 am
by MittenNinja
Soren wrote:Mm, the Colonial militias also broke and ran from battle fairly frequently. That's the problem - eventually, you need a regular army that reliably fights when and where you tell it to, and that means you need a government that is (hopefully) accountable to more than one person.


That's where the French come in :)

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:04 pm
by MittenNinja
Soren wrote:Mm, the Colonial militias also broke and ran from battle fairly frequently. That's the problem - eventually, you need a regular army that reliably fights when and where you tell it to, and that means you need a government that is (hopefully) accountable to more than one person.


In all seriousness though, this is why a long term unified resistance would be pretty rare. The SU would have either have to done something to the colonists that they see as irrevocably wrong to make them unite to fend them off, or there would have to be strong leadership behind the resistance, being able to keep their morale and devotion stout.

I see a good chuck of the colonies that choose to resist initially getting flattened pretty quickly.

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:00 pm
by Joshua A.C. Newman
Soren wrote:Mm, the Colonial militias also broke and ran from battle fairly frequently. That's the problem - eventually, you need a regular army that reliably fights when and where you tell it to, and that means you need a government that is (hopefully) accountable to more than one person.


Precisely the shape of the problem.

MittenNinja wrote:In all seriousness though, this is why a long term unified resistance would be pretty rare. The SU would have either have to done something to the colonists that they see as irrevocably wrong to make them unite to fend them off, or there would have to be strong leadership behind the resistance, being able to keep their morale and devotion stout.

I see a good chuck of the colonies that choose to resist initially getting flattened pretty quickly.


SC0245 is precisely that tipping point.

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:03 pm
by Joshua A.C. Newman
Wadmaasi wrote:Are Ijad a spiritual/philosophical movement more akin to Buddhism/Shintoatoism or a literal, "God wants it this Way!" sorta thing?


Yep!

(Remember: no leader you don't see face-to-face. So there's a lot of doctrinal latitude. A good example might be Judaism, actually, or 9th century Islam. So sometimes militant bigots, sometimes humanist philosophers, sometimes mystical, hermetic alchemists...)

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:01 pm
by Mantisking
MittenNinja wrote:In all seriousness though, this is why a long term unified resistance would be pretty rare. The SU would have either have to done something to the colonists that they see as irrevocably wrong to make them unite to fend them off, or there would have to be strong leadership behind the resistance, being able to keep their morale and devotion stout.

This reminds me of The Man Who Never Missed series.

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:41 am
by The Trilobite
MittenNinja wrote: In all seriousness though, this is why a long term unified resistance would be pretty rare. The SU would have either have to done something to the colonists that they see as irrevocably wrong to make them unite to fend them off, or there would have to be strong leadership behind the resistance, being able to keep their morale and devotion stout.


False flag operations, Coventry and/or Gulf of Tonkin incidents, and agents provocateur would be useful all 'round, methinks.

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:17 pm
by Joshua A.C. Newman
Yeah, the Trilobite is right. There are plenty of examples through history.

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:19 pm
by Axhead
Even when there isn't any rampant abuse people get greedy fast. Here in Alberta we have a new hard right wing party who favor economic isolationism (they don't want to federal royalties on oil and don't want to make inter-provincial transfer payments), environmental deregulation (while denouncing global warming) and want to repeal laws that prevent the propogation of hate literature... It would be comical if it didn't look like they might win a majority.

Times aren't tough in Alberta, anyone who is willing to do crappy work in a harsh environment (sounds like the Free Colonies doesn't it) can make a bunch of money without needing any skills or education.

Interestingly these are the same folks that are pandering to oil companies (sounds like union loyalists huh?).

I guess my point is when you look at Billions of dollars people get stupid and greedy, I can only imagine how fast things would go off the rails when the profit of an entire solar system is on the line.

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:47 pm
by randolph
Are there specific colors each of the three main factions self-identifies with? I.e. the main color of the SU flag or the FC flag, or specific colors the Ijad identify with their religion / selves?

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:45 pm
by Joshua A.C. Newman
Yeah, but they're not settled.

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:19 pm
by goldenmeanie
Mantisking wrote:This reminds me of The Man Who Never Missed series.


I really enjoyed those books!

MFØ has me thinking of Richard K. Morgan's Takeshi Kovacs trilogy a lot. The books tackle the expensive transport problem differently, but the politics of the series seem compatible. If you haven't read them, check them out!

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:48 am
by Mantisking
Mantisking wrote:This reminds me of The Man Who Never Missed series.
goldenmeanie wrote:I really enjoyed those books!

As did I!

goldenmeanie wrote:MFØ has me thinking of Richard K. Morgan's Takeshi Kovacs trilogy a lot. The books tackle the expensive transport problem differently, but the politics of the series seem compatible. If you haven't read them, check them out!

I own all three, thanks to Borders going out of business. :?

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:38 am
by Vidar
Have there been any "lost" colonies, or groups that set out out side of the SU pervade?
I am think of starting the back ground for a group that hacked the gate and got shot off to a different system than intenteded. And had the destination codes burn out the memory of the gate. As a state that had its own surviveal first and foremost it could be very advanced technologically but low population. And now as part of the uprising the SU shots a gate into their system/systems for a stratigic reason only to find them instead.

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:25 pm
by Zero Revenge
Soren wrote:The Mockingbird Regiment's last stand at Amritsar doesn't have much in common with Serpent Legion raids on rebel mining towns in the Orion outback, the Sisters of the Dreaming Blade don't torture civilians for information like the Armored of God, and nobody would confuse the Janus Battalion for those Cerafi maniacs who gassed Amelia Side.


Woah, whole colonies being gassed? Wooooaaaaah. How did I miss that one?

What's the story behind that? O___o Who are all these lovely subfactions/squads?

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:07 pm
by Soren
Zero Revenge wrote:Woah, whole colonies being gassed? Wooooaaaaah. How did I miss that one?

It's hard to top, as a visceral genre reference.

Zero Revenge wrote:What's the story behind that? O___o Who are all these lovely subfactions/squads?

Some jumped-up local aristocrats decided they wanted to win easy more than they feared retribution, and flooded the habitat with K4 nerve agent. The first guys who went inside after the Legion nuked the Cerafi rebels back to the stone age... well, they've mostly stopped screaming, as long as they take their medication.

They're examples of the 'best' and 'worst' each faction has to offer. Names mostly made up on the spot, although Greg has a lot more to say about the Serpent Legion. I may flesh out the Sisters of the Dreaming Blade later, depending on the price of purple tiles.

Re: The Background Thus Far

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:22 pm
by morganm
I just read over on the Wiki the setting and then this entire thread. I'm still confused on some of the setting and would love some clarification.

This did not sit well with the Ijad-indoctrinated local populations under such control. In SC 0240, a UMFL company arrested the popular mayor of the town of Quall for refusing to sell their exports at the SU market price. The subsequent riot ended abruptly when eight mobile frames, built from labor frame parts and painted in matching orange colors, engaged the unprepared Legionnaires in a high-speed, running battle through the streets of Quall. Despite the loss of two of the colonists' frames, the Legionnaires present were all killed or imprisoned in the town jail. Quall is now considered the first appearance of the Free Colonies movement.

Seeing the successes of the Free Colonies (and its discussions of federation) as further expansion of their enemies, many of the Ijad now see no distinction between the Free Colonies and the Solar Union. Those agreeing with the principle now seek to counter, using the now well-understood technologies of the stargates and mobile frame to begin their own expansion, forcing back those who would rule them from afar.


Why are the Ijad opposed to the Free Colonists based on what happened at Quall? It says right in the first sentence that the people of Quall were already Ijadists. The riot against the UMFL was by Ijadists.

(and its discussions of federation)
This is in parenthesis making sound like a minor, sub-point, as to why the Ijad oppose the Free Colonies. I don't even see why the talk of federation would put off the Ijad. The idea of federalism is that local authorities only give a very small portion of power to a central authority which is actually made up of people from your local political units. The Ijad seem to be more opposed to a dictatorship or fascist government where all power is usurped by a central authority. Maybe the Ijad are just so anti-central-authority that even the idea of federalism is blasphemy.... still it's pointed out as a minor reason and not the main reason.

it's made to sound like the talk of federating the Free Colonies is a minor issue. I don't see anything in the text explaining the main reason why the Ijad oppose the Free Colonies. In fact it says that the rebels who fought against the UMFL in Quall, and ultimately created the first Free Colony, were actually Ijadists (or at the very least "Ijad-indoctrinated").



Some clarification on gates would be nice. Maybe it's published elsewhere but from what I've read I still don't get the difference between a Stargate and a Transit Gate. The Transit Gate is explained pretty well on page one and in other posts in this thread but the Stargate isn't so clearly defined. Perhaps they are synonymous? Perhaps Stargates are used to go between star systems and travel great distances where as Transit Gates are to take shorter hops within a star system? I'm not sure based on what I've read so far.

It's been explained that Transit Gates are interconnected and you can send things from one gate to another precisely. However it sounded like you could also use a Transit Gate to shoot imprecisely to somewhere else even if there was no gate on the other end; true?



Please don't take my questions the wrong way. Loved what I've read so far and 90% of it all makes perfect sense to me. Just these small things stood out in my mind.

Thanks!