Discussion: Weight Classes.

[Ced23Ric]

[Forged]

I would run it slightly differently,
Light = 1W, max 3 Systems, gets bonus Green d8 if there are no artillery
Medium = 2W, max 4 systems gets bonus Green d8 if there are no artillery or Direct fire
Heavy = 3W, max 5 Systems, gets bonus Green d8 if there are no weapons.

I don't like the idea of changing the base defence. And heavy mechs seem scary. The big problem is establishing a value for light and medium frames, as the current game treats all frames equally and smaller and larger frames are definitely not equal to the medium frame.

[Ced23Ric]

That's a good idea. I like that alot. I would try and find a pointbase to which all frame types are likened, and BattleTech had the always nice "drop limit" that determined how much tonnage you could bring to bear. What do you think about that part?

[Ken]

I think this may mess with points/per in the set up and victory conditions.

If you alter the points per calculation to be based on white dice and attachments, then forged's idea could work well and still balance out about the same.

[Forged]

Finding out the balance of different sized mechs will probably require the rules to come out. I would love to work on this and play test a module for over and undersized frames. The way the game seems to be running is that you bring whatever you want (within loose limits) then all your items get a VP value. It's currently set so frames and capture points are equal in value. This would need to change, but we don't know where the numbers are anyway so it would be impossible to know what/how to tweak it.

TLDR: Lets keep coming up with ideas! We can bash the ideas on the rocks of testing later!

[timonkey]

I don't really like the idea of difference rules for different sizes. Also, what about this to deal with the point per issue:

Light/Small/Scout Frame:
-Only 1 White die
-Max 2 systems
-For the purposes of counting your points per asset, this counts as 0.5 frames

Heavy/Large/Assault Frame:
-3 White dice
-Max 6 systems
-For the purposes of counting your points per asset, this counts as 1.5 frames

[Ced23Ric]

[timonkey]

I see where you're coming from. I guess I really don't like the idea of special rules for different size frames once they're on the field. Especially in the case where a heavy frame gets beat down to just one white die, but he's someone still different than a medium frame that's blown down to the same size and effectiveness.

Also, I like the idea of using the points per asset to inherently balance the different sizes. Yeah, they are not the same thing as 0.5 or 1.5 frames, but they may be worth about the same for determining points per. Of course, there will be some weird interactions that I'll need to think through.

But consider 1 normal frame vs 2 small frames. They count the same in determining your points per and you now have two frames with the same number of systems as 1 normal frame, but they can be in two different places. That's all good, now the bad: you still have more assets, which gives you more points, and your frames aren't as good and are easier to destroy. I don't think there's a dominant strategy there.

But whatever your weight class rules are, I think you could use my points per asset idea with it.

[Ced23Ric]

That is the next thing, the addition of two small 'Frames means more dice for the small ones, meaning a flatter statistical approach to damage, and thusly, a higher Combat Efficiency. In a 2 vs. 1 environment, the CAT of two small 'Frames is higher than the one of one medium 'Frame.

It's very situational and assymetric.

[benlehman]

Generally speaking, I've used "small" or "large" as explanations for and and sometimes .

That's a very nice way of doing weight classes.

[randolph]

[schoon]

[Ced23Ric]

[Forged]

[Ced23Ric]

Accidentially, yeah.

[zeekhotep]

The topic of multiple sizes of Mechaton mech frames is almost as old as Mechaton itself. That and a point system to make them work is the topic of this post on my blog.

Uriel Johan first posted about this on 3-25-08.

Tony on Attacks of opportunity discussed it before that on 2-12-07.

I also mentioned doing this in the very first post of my blog.

If you read my post on the Crimson Commandos, then you know I have a vested interest in creating a set of rules on this topic.

I think we can come up with a set of rules that will be a good foundation for a Mechwarrior style setting.

[Axhead]

Generally I think using different types of dice (d4 to d10 or d12) to generate the desired affects would require the least modification and still give you the diversity. Then the only thing you need to change is the VP and the entire game plays as written.

For example:
Light: use d8 for green and d4 for Blue
Medium: d6's across the board
Heavy: d4 for green, d8 for Red
Assault: d4 for green, d8 for Red and Blue

[Axhead]

[zeekhotep]

I really like the idea of allowing a green d8 for "light mechs" doubling up on green. Of course they then only have one open system left, which is a good limiting factor. The biggest factor in getting this system of weight classes working right is going to be game balance, and finding a way to work it into the VP system.

[Axhead]