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Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 11:22 am
by jwhite10394
I've got a couple questions that I'm hoping can be answered.

1st: Can you spot a frame in HtH range?
2nd: Can you spot a frame in HtH over cover with white dice?

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 11:37 am
by Blorf
1: Yes. Weapon ranges are exclusive, but range for spotting is inclusive.

2: A frame can spot a unit in cover if it carries at least one yellow system. You may not spot a unit in cover if your frame carries no spotting systems. You can use white dice for anything your frame is already capable of.

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 12:04 pm
by jwhite10394
Okay. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I haven't even played a game yet or built frame, but I'm getting some Legos tomorrow so I'm pretty excited.

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:48 pm
by greypilgrim
jwhite: tip for building frames:
Look up some of the basic joints people use and then that opens up a lot more possibilities for you. Also consider buying individual pneumatic-T's, travis bricks, and 1x1 clips from bricklink.com or the lego store. I found it was almost impossible to build joints and limbs without first learning what other people commonly do. (Hint: bars + clips make things simple and easy) you can also buy a handful of mixel sets. Those have tiny ball joints in them and are available anywhere they sell Legos.

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:29 am
by jwhite10394
What are mixels called on bricklink?

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:50 am
by gusindor
jwhite10394 wrote:What are mixels called on bricklink?

They all have individual names. If you go to the catalog, set the item type to "Sets" and the category to "Mixels", you'll see all of them. Most of the small ball and socket pieces (often called "Mixel joints") show up if you search "towball".

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:38 pm
by jwhite10394
Sweet! Thanks! I'm gathering Legos for my son (he was born last week. I know, it'll be a while before he can play with them) and I'll be sure to include some of those little guys in the collection.

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:47 pm
by Blorf
Congratulations!

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:42 pm
by jwhite10394
Blorf wrote:Congratulations!


Thanks!

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:06 am
by EdFadigan
jwhite10394 wrote:I've got a couple questions that I'm hoping can be answered.
2nd: Can you spot a frame in HtH over cover with white dice?


I was under the impression, that a Frame's status as "In Cover" was always judged relative to the Frame acting as the "Spotter".

For instance, if a target was within Direct Fire range from my Spotter, and a piece of Terrain was within HtH of the Target, then that Frame would be "In Cover", and I'd be unable to Spot it with a White Die.
BUT - If I was Flanking that Target, and the Terrain was NOT between the Target and myself, then I WOULD be able to use the White Die, because the Target is not "In Cover", relative to ME (The Flanking Spotter).

If the above is true, then NO Target has Cover, if the Spotter is in HtH Range of the Target, at the time of the Spot.

Am I misunderstanding this rule?

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:39 am
by Shades_Corvid
Your quoting a question so I am not sure what your getting at?

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:50 pm
by Blorf
EdFadigan wrote:If the above is true, then NO Target has Cover, if the Spotter is in HtH Range of the Target, at the time of the Spot.
Am I misunderstanding this rule?


You've almost got it, but you're off on a subtle point.
p118: "a mobile frame is in cover against an attacker if it is within hand to hand range of terrain or a structure on the battlefield that is between it and its attacker, in whole or in part."
p119: "Hand to hand attacks ignore cover."

The effect is that while you never consider cover for making an attack, you do still need to consider cover for spotting. The frame isn't simply out of cover once you're in HtH range.

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:32 am
by EdFadigan
That makes sense, and is exactly how I'll explain it to my group, when it comes up.

1) The Frame IS in cover, but HtH ignores cover.
2) Spotting considers all cover, even the cover that HtH ignores.

If I were to flank the target, so that the cover was NOT between the target and myself, I could then Spot the target, at the end of the turn?

a) Attack HtH over a 3b high wall.
b) After the attack, use my movement to jump over wall, or move around the wall.
c) Spot the target.
d) Profit?

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:37 am
by Blorf
EdFadigan wrote:If I were to flank the target, so that the cover was NOT between the target and myself, I could then Spot the target, at the end of the turn?


Yes.

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:53 am
by CmdrRook
EdFadigan wrote:If I were to flank the target ... I could then Spot the target at the end of the turn?


To clarify further, you may ONLY Spot at the end of a Frame's activation, not during. This gets hand-wavy with some players who are spotting Frames they aren't Attacking, but the order of operations still specifically calls for Spot numbers to be placed as a Frame's final action, after Defense, Movement, and Attacks.

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:37 pm
by Fr33land
Does spot lower an enemy frame's defense when it is attacked in HtH? Presume it has been spotted down, then another frame engages is in HtH.

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:57 pm
by CmdrRook
Fr33land wrote:Does spot lower an enemy frame's defense when it is attacked in HtH? Presume it has been spotted down, then another frame engages is in HtH.

Yes, spot applies to the next valid attack against the target, regardless of range type.

Re: Spotting in HtH

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:11 am
by Shades_Corvid
Fr33land wrote:Does spot lower an enemy frame's defense when it is attacked in HtH? Presume it has been spotted down, then another frame engages is in HtH.


but it doesn't lower defenses, it adds to the attack roll.