Mobile Frame Zero: Intercept Orbit.

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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby A YATES INDUSTRIALS » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:08 pm

so how big are ships gonna be ? :)
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:12 am

Soren and I are working that out. I think it'll be trouble if they get to be much more than 8 dots long.
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Intercept Orbit

Postby Thaddeus » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:20 am

Ok, wow, so small. Good to know!
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby MittenNinja » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:31 am

So what's the max number of systems on a ship?
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby Thaddeus » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:37 am

Looks to be four.
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby studless » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:32 am

Hold on....

HOW long are the ships supposed to be?

(in studs, if you don't mind)
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:18 am

I'd like them to be about 8 studs long. My guess is, that won't be enough detail, so we'll wind up at some sort of compromise that, in all likelihood, will me more like the ship back a page or two.

Most ships have four systems, just like frames do in :RA. Small ships have fewer than four and, as a result, are highly maneuverable.

(If you think you couldn't POSSIBLY make something cool looking at that scale, check you Soren's Grand Harmony Defense Force. The catch with these is that they didn't have to have individually recognizable and removable systems, which we need.)
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby Soren » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:56 am

I think all of those are longer than 8 studs. Certainly most of them are. Eight studs is tiny, and I don't want a maximum size I can't reliably build under as well as over.*

The biggest problem is that you can't have recognizable frames unless ships can be at least twice that large (at 8 studs you probably can't have carried anything, not with any degree of visual differentiation). I wouldn't be surprised at all if we settle on 16 studs as a maximum for just that reason.

Freighters, asteroids, and space stations for cover, though... Sky's the limit.

*This is verging on internal design discussion, so stuff might vanish from this post later.
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:36 am

You have a good point: with rules for small ships, we have to have wiggle room.

I'll have to doodle out some ships and see what they look like on a table. I bet 16 is more acceptable than I'm imagining.
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby A YATES INDUSTRIALS » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:37 pm

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:You have a good point: with rules for small ships, we have to have wiggle room.

I'll have to doodle out some ships and see what they look like on a table. I bet 16 is more acceptable than I'm imagining.

Image
'tetra' missle cruiser by A YATES INDUSTRIALS., on Flickr
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'koi' frame carrier by A YATES INDUSTRIALS., on Flickr
these are both 16 studs long for reference :)
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby Mantisking » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:57 pm

The main body of this one is six studs long.

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Microscale Commship with Escort Fighter Wing, on Flickr.

The Death's Head Destroyer is a little over 16 studs long.
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby studless » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:13 pm

My ships were about 20 studs long, Solar Specter was a little longer than that.

16 studs is tiny! Looks like I need more time to build.
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:20 pm

Yeah, if you're going to go any bigger at all, you'll need to find yourself a bigger ruler. Otherwise, you'll just be running into each other all the time.

[Edit: OK, maybe that is good if you are playing for comedy]
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby studless » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:45 pm

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Yeah, if you're going to go any bigger at all, you'll need to find yourself a bigger ruler. Otherwise, you'll just be running into each other all the time.

[Edit: OK, maybe that is good if you are playing for comedy]


New rule,

RAMMING SPEED!!!
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby Zero Revenge » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:32 am

Just curious, why the decision to make frame companies unable to be targeted after they run out of fuel?

I can understand it from the "unable to track heat signatures" POV, but there should be some punishment for you leaving your frame company out to rust, namely that they're now sitting ducks.

I'm just curious, why the mercy?
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby M3tschenniy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:04 am

Preservation of resources? As in, no need to waste ammo on an enemy who is unable to hurt you? This is what I would imagine from a fluff viewpoint.
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:07 am

studless wrote:
Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:Yeah, if you're going to go any bigger at all, you'll need to find yourself a bigger ruler. Otherwise, you'll just be running into each other all the time.

[Edit: OK, maybe that is good if you are playing for comedy]


New rule,

RAMMING SPEED!!!


Dude, read the rules! Of course ships can ram! It's devastating and suicidal, like you'd hope!
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:16 am

Zero Revenge wrote:Just curious, why the decision to make frame companies unable to be targeted after they run out of fuel?

I can understand it from the "unable to track heat signatures" POV, but there should be some punishment for you leaving your frame company out to rust, namely that they're now sitting ducks.

I'm just curious, why the mercy?


From a fictional standpoint, they're hard to target with their engines cold.

From a strategic standpoint, in 99+% of cases, it's a bad idea to waste that move, so I don't give the option. Other times you might not have a better target, but shooting them will gain you nothing.

From a philosophical standpoint, shooting the helpless — particularly as a casual action when you don't have anything better to do — isn't something I want to promote. Just like, if you make a crowd of civilians into a station, you can't shoot them. If you want to shoot the prisoners, that'll happen offscreen.

From a game design perspective, you just overextended and lost an entire unit. You already feel the effects. Even worse, you're now tempted to go rescue them so you can regain them and everyone else can see that.
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby studless » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:51 am

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:You have a good point: with rules for small ships, we have to have wiggle room.

I'll have to doodle out some ships and see what they look like on a table. I bet 16 is more acceptable than I'm imagining.


At that scale, what would we use to represent frames? 1X1 plates?
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Re: Mobile Frame Zero: Alpha Bandit

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:20 pm

studless wrote:
Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:You have a good point: with rules for small ships, we have to have wiggle room.

I'll have to doodle out some ships and see what they look like on a table. I bet 16 is more acceptable than I'm imagining.


At that scale, what would we use to represent frames? 1X1 plates?


Heh. Probably stickfigs. This is an ongoing, behind-the-scenes conversation right now.

A question for the MoFØs!
I'm thinking about representing aces with a full-size frame instead of a stand of stickfigs. We assume there's a company behind it, but when we look at that spot on the table, we're zooming in.

It disrupts scale, but that happens all the time in fiction: we zoom in and out with our interest. That doesn't happen much with wargames for reasons that I don't want to replicate.

So, I know it's weird, but it opens up the design space for space frames, of which we've so far only seen the ST-10 Osprey. Plus, more robots is more good.

Thoughts?
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