Other miniature wargaming?

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Re: Other miniature wargaming?

Postby VitorFaria » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:56 pm

That looks really fine!

Mentioning X-Wing, I've been playing it for a while. I have a "love/hate relationship" with it.

It has super fun core mechanics, but also all the wargaming clichês that MF0 avoids so well. I especially dislike the fact that it is a "genocide game", outside of the very limited and prescriptive official objective play scenarios, you win by killing everybody.

I'm trying to create house rules that fix that without ruining balance. No luck so far.
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Re: Other miniature wargaming?

Postby CADmonkey » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:24 pm

VitorFaria wrote:Mentioning X-Wing, I've been playing it for a while. I have a "love/hate relationship" with it.

It has super fun core mechanics, but also all the wargaming clichês that MF0 avoids so well. I especially dislike the fact that it is a "genocide game", outside of the very limited and prescriptive official objective play scenarios, you win by killing everybody.

I'm trying to create house rules that fix that without ruining balance. No luck so far.

Yep, that is very common.

In one of the many iterations of Heavy Gear Blitz, they introduced an objective system, and the first time we played with objectives my opponent looked at his laundry list of objectives and said "So if I wipe you out, I achieve all my objectives", I said "Wait, don't you have any recon objectives?" his response was "Yeah, but the book says that if I destroy the recon target, that counts as 'reconning' it!". :(
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Re: Other miniature wargaming?

Postby VitorFaria » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:11 am

Yeah, it's a very well established clichê, to the point that some people can't even conceive a war game where that doesn't happen and just assume that's how things should always be.
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Re: Other miniature wargaming?

Postby CADmonkey » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:18 pm

I mentioned Full Thrust earlier in this thread, and here's a podcast interview with Jon Tuffley, the author of FT and proprietor of Ground Zero Games: Meeples & Miniatures – Episode 230 – Ground Zero Games

The interview begins at about 36 minutes in.

In addition to Full Thrust they also discuss Tuffley’s Dirtside (6mm ground combat) and Stargrunt (25 mm ground combat) games. I own, but haven't actually played, both Dirtside and Stargrunt in addition to FT, which I have played a lot.

Full Thrust's biggest selling points for me were it's orders system and it's movement systems. At the beginning of every turn players have to write movement orders for their ships, which has the effect of forcing players to make decisions without perfect knowledge of what the result will be, without seeing where some or all of their opponent's units will be moving. The movement system in the base rulebook is "cinematic" and rather similar to movement in Intercept Orbit: a ship's speed at the beginning of a turn (before writing movement orders) is carried over from the previous turn, then thrust points are used to accelerate or decelerate and to turn. A supplement for FT added a 2D "vector" movement system: when a ship begins moving, you place a marker at it's starting point, then once all of it's movement is finished, you measure the distance and direction from start point to end point and that tells you the ship's 'inertial vector' for the next turn, and the first part of movement every turn is moving ships according to their inertial vector before executing their movement orders. The cinematic movement system is less realistic, but ships move the way many people expect them to move. The vector movement system is harder for some folks to accept conceptually, but it's actually pretty easy to learn and use in actual play (and it's nowhere near as complex as systems that try to simulate 3D vector movement).
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Re: Other miniature wargaming?

Postby CmdrRook » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:44 pm

Any interest in Squadron Strike, or Attack Vector: Tactics, cadmonkey? I am a big fan of the AVID system, a very abbreviated version of Full Thrust's accounting process.


Voidstriker gets honorable mention and is very fun, but is locked into a 2d plane, making it an outlier.
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Re: Other miniature wargaming?

Postby CADmonkey » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:02 pm

CmdrRook wrote:Any interest in Squadron Strike, or Attack Vector: Tactics, cadmonkey?

No, no interest. I've heard of them, but when the gamers trying to sell me on them said "It simulates 3D movement on a 2D map", I said "Oh, No. Thanks awfully, but no".

CmdrRook wrote:I am a big fan of the AVID system, a very abbreviated version of Full Thrust's accounting process.

What "accounting process" are you talking about?

CmdrRook wrote:Voidstriker gets honorable mention and is very fun, but is locked into a 2d plane, making it an outlier.

An outlier to what?
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Re: Other miniature wargaming?

Postby CmdrRook » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:32 pm

Ah, I too looked at folks who approached me about the simulation aspect with suspicion, but all of the hard math had been done, draw a line on the avid, and you'll have plotted your maneuver. This condenses the list and chart method you might be familiar with into one erasable work surface. Voidstriker is a lot more arcade-y than the other space fleet scale games I like, but it seems like it would be right up your alley, by the sounds of it.
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Re: Other miniature wargaming?

Postby CADmonkey » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:03 am

So while waiting for Gaslands to come out later this month, some friends and I got together to try another "post-apocalyptic vehicular combat" game: Axles and Alloys II - Dork Future, a game with rules loosely based on GZG's Full Thrust. I brought a bunch of (unpainted, unconverted) hotwheels & matchbox cars and we used minimal terrain from the supply at the FLGS, and I took a few photos:

Image
Axles and Alloys II - Dork Future by Bryan Rombough, on Flickr

Rules, dice, terrain & a bunch of hotwheels & matchbox cars (also some dropped weapons templates that we never used).

I saw the skull terrain piece on a shelf and said "this has to be the centrepiece of the table".

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First Turn by Bryan Rombough, on Flickr

Dindo (Van), Lucas (Sedan) and I (VW Buggy) accelerate from our respective corners. Some shooting, no damage.

Image
Second Turn by Bryan Rombough, on Flickr

I skid, almost going "off table" & fail to line up a shot on Dindo. Lucas & Dindo exchange fire and Dindo rams Lucas.
photo from mid-turn, before the ram

Image
Third Turn by Bryan Rombough, on Flickr

I don’t skid this turn, but overshoot my targets (should have decelerated). Lucas & Dindo exchange fire and ram each other, Lucas’ sedan is almost destroyed.

The game was called at the end of the third turn on account of time (the FLGS was closing). We all agreed that Dindo was clearly the victor.

Fun, simple rules: three turns in under an hour. Almost all the damage came from ramming, and we agreed the skidding rules didn’t make sense, but I’ll be happy to play A&A again.
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